I wonder if it was as simple as the pre-production versions that Dapol received, and which worked fine at TINGS, had finer wheel rims than the production batch?
Stranger things have happened. And it looks like the tolerances are pretty fine.

I've not purchased these, as they are out of my modelling eras (though I had contemplated them before I saw Revolution offer the bogie tipplers), but I wonder if anyone has looked at swapping out the axles for different ones?

I'm up for the Revolution original (1986 version) Class 59 plus Yeoman tipplers, in case anyone was wondering.

Bob

Quote
The counter to that is what would you like them to do? You can return them at no cost. They are taking on board feedback for a future run. It's not realistic that they'd reject the entire run if we believe them that the number so affected is comparatively small (at least it isn't universal). Perhaps if it turns out that 0.2mm shims resolves it then perhaps they could offer these as a no-cost solution. They may still do that.

Frustrating given they look great.

What would I like them to do? Well call me old fashioned, but I'd like a product that wasn't faulty out of the box.....

I appreciate what you're saying, but look at it from my point of view - I spent in excess of £600 for models that are effectively useless without me making some kind of repair.  In any other business, a faulty product is rectified by the manufacturer, not by the customer.

To simply say 'We'll look at it if we make any more' is a massive cop out.  Realistically there are just two suitable solutions for me:

1. Take back the wagons, repair them so they run smoothly and send them back to me (all at Dapol's cost) OR
2. Refund me 50% of the cost of the wagons and I'll repair them myself.

Over on the Dapol digest, Joel is suggesting none of the QC procedures picked up this fault - I find this very hard rot believe. Dapol are more than capable of making a smooth running, detailed model - take the HIA's for example, I have 16 of those and they are perfect - no issues with any of them whatsoever, so they can do it.

hi

the 0.2 mm thick shims are too thin i have found. close though, and it did resolve the issue on a few wagons i tried but not all of them.

i am going to try 0. 5 mm shims instead.

as a gesture of good will i think dapol should actually buy shim washers and send them out to any customers who ask for them!

cheers


tim

What about 2x0.2 mm shims as well/instead?

Quote from: SGregory on November 06, 2022, 06:37:56 PM

Quote
The counter to that is what would you like them to do? You can return them at no cost. They are taking on board feedback for a future run. It's not realistic that they'd reject the entire run if we believe them that the number so affected is comparatively small (at least it isn't universal). Perhaps if it turns out that 0.2mm shims resolves it then perhaps they could offer these as a no-cost solution. They may still do that.

Frustrating given they look great.

What would I like them to do? Well call me old fashioned, but I'd like a product that wasn't faulty out of the box.....

I appreciate what you're saying, but look at it from my point of view - I spent in excess of £600 for models that are effectively useless without me making some kind of repair.  In any other business, a faulty product is rectified by the manufacturer, not by the customer.

To simply say 'We'll look at it if we make any more' is a massive cop out.  Realistically there are just two suitable solutions for me:

1. Take back the wagons, repair them so they run smoothly and send them back to me (all at Dapol's cost) OR
2. Refund me 50% of the cost of the wagons and I'll repair them myself.

Over on the Dapol digest, Joel is suggesting none of the QC procedures picked up this fault - I find this very hard rot believe. Dapol are more than capable of making a smooth running, detailed model - take the HIA's for example, I have 16 of those and they are perfect - no issues with any of them whatsoever, so they can do it.

But there are practical constraints to that. They can't fix the underlying issue on this batch, so saying they'll add rebates next time seems reasonable. They haven't yet said that they won't provide shims, as said you can already return them if you're dissatisfied. 50% off is absolute fantasy territory IMO. I'd quite like Dapol to remain in business. One has to have a degree of pragmatism. 

Quote
But there are practical constraints to that. They can't fix the underlying issue on this batch, so saying they'll add rebates next time seems reasonable. They haven't yet said that they won't provide shims, as said you can already return them if you're dissatisfied. 50% off is absolute fantasy territory IMO. I'd quite like Dapol to remain in business. One has to have a degree of pragmatism.

You say 50% is fantasy, but what on earth are consumers like me supposed to think after spending so much money? 

I'd also like Dapol to remain in business, but charging premium prices for continually sub-standard product is not the way to go about it.  For whatever reason, they seem to get a free pass with lots of people, which is astonishing. 

Quite why that is I have no idea, sure another manufacturer gives us as modellers more choice, but poor design and patchy build quality are slowly ruining whatever reputation they have. 

These days, it simply isn't enough to produce the odd run of models that are up to standard here or there (like the HIA or Clay Bullets, both excellent representations of their respective prototypes).  Particularly when both the new and established players in town are going from strength to strength in terms of detail and consistent quality.

I personally don't have all the answers, I just know that if it were my business and my customers thought as I (and a lot of other people undoubtedly do), I would be doing everything in my power to rectify those problems.

The silver bullets are terrible runners, they do look good though! Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting people should accept 'sub standard' products, but they're also at the point of discovering this is an issue clearly. Now whether you think Joel is outright lying, or their QC wasn't up to scratch, or it genuinely is a small subset of models affected is a bit moot. Like so many models, from any number of brands, they're at the point of probably deciding what, if anything, to do. Plenty of precedent for manufacturers fixing an item after the fact. Dapol issued new 68 bodyshells in OO after a printing error, likewise the Strathclyde 156s. Revolution replacing wheelsets on IWAs to fix running issues.

I hope they don't do anything and they languish in sale baskets, then I'll pick them up cheap!

QuoteI hope they don't do anything and they languish in sale baskets, then I'll pick them up cheap!

I wasn't thinking that guv, honest 

Skyline2uk

Quote from: Skyline2uk on November 06, 2022, 10:43:21 PM

QuoteI hope they don't do anything and they languish in sale baskets, then I'll pick them up cheap!

I wasn't thinking that guv, honest 

Skyline2uk

Me neither. I honestly won't be looking to buy another rake of 20 but this time carrying the later livery but if I did I still have 60 of my £1.34 washers to use up 

The financial pain is going to come sooner rather than later at Dapol when the broken coupler returned wagons start accumulating from retailers. Looking at the packaging and the identical failure mode across several wagons, this is almost certainly due to the coupler arm being tilted up or down when packed rather than with the coupler arm and coupler correctly located horizontally in the packaging.

Unlike the rubbing wheels where amelioration is possible with a shim, the broken coupler arm  does not appear to be repairable without installing a new part, which means dismantling the whole wagon.

You're not wrong on that @woodbury22uk.  I've sent 7 back already for snapped couplings, 4 previously and now 3 of the replacements going back - I was looking to see if I could repair them but as you say, there is no possible way.  Looks like a new mount it required.  This was despite asking the retailer to have them QC checked before leaving.... 

The coupling arm is one of the reasons I switched to magnetic inter-wagon couplings, the supplied items require too much pressure to couple/uncouple most of the time - another failure waiting to happen there.

Whilst we are adding fuel to the fire, there is another issue.

It looks like the detail parts are prone to breaking off when the wagons are being coupled with the bar couplers. The steps and platforms are vulnerable if the wagons are coupled upside down, and handrails and tiedowns etc. are vulnerable if coupled on their sides. Then the five wagon snake has to be transferred to a straight section of track with all twenty wheelsets aligned with the rails. Inevitably bits will be knocked off.

The wagons look lovely in their boxes with an impressive level of detail, but getting a rake  running smoothly by shimming the pivots and coupling up without knocking bits off certainly take the edge off.

Quote from: woodbury22uk on November 07, 2022, 09:11:34 AM
Whilst we are adding fuel to the fire, there is another issue.

It looks like the detail parts are prone to breaking off when the wagons are being coupled with the bar couplers. The steps and platforms are vulnerable if the wagons are coupled upside down, and handrails and tiedowns etc. are vulnerable if coupled on their sides. Then the five wagon snake has to be transferred to a straight section of track with all twenty wheelsets aligned with the rails. Inevitably bits will be knocked off.

The wagons look lovely in their boxes with an impressive level of detail, but getting a rake  running smoothly by shimming the pivots and coupling up without knocking bits off certainly take the edge off.

I'm with you there.  If you include the replacements I have (and am arranging again), I will have seen 38 of these wagons.  About two thirds have had broken couplings and/or fine details - i've kept most of the footsteps that have come off (at least those I know about) for later reattachment, but even whilst fitting the very first magnetic coupler to an end wagon yesterday, I gripped the wagon at the end and managed to break off one of the lashing eyes...gluing that back on was accomplished with more luck than skill I can tell you.

My view is that once i've added the shims and the couplers, these wagons will not be going back in their boxes for any reason - just too much risk of breaking something off.

Quote from: SGregory on November 07, 2022, 09:48:06 AM
My view is that once i've added the shims and the couplers, these wagons will not be going back in their boxes for any reason - just too much risk of breaking something off.

I've been thinking along similar lines. If I don't change to magnetic couplers then my rake of 20 may live in my fiddle yard on a permanent basis. Not a huge problem anyway as I think these will be run rather a lot anyway.

Progress has been made, using a 0.25 shim the wagon wheels now run freely with no drag, much better than grinding the underside of the wagon floor.
The left hand wagon has the shim the right as out of the box. There is a slight height difference if you look closely.





The raised wagon next to the class 59 to show height comparison.







The shim in place on the bogie.






The shim information purchased from Ebay. Hope this info helps someone else out

JW