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Author Topic: Milk Train Brake Vans  (Read 17377 times)

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Offline NeMo

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2015, 06:47:50 AM »
Through taps at one or both ends of the tanker. Fill from the top, empty from the bottom, logically enough! Sometimes nothing more than a clean hose on a station platform was used, most notoriously at Vauxhall.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/5375845579

But usually at some milk bottling plant or dairy processing factory, where emptying sometimes happened inside a shed of some sort.

Cheers, NeMo

Slightly off topic.
How did they remove the milk from the tankers?  Pipes at track level, flexible hoses, stand pipes on a platform?
Been searching for pictures of the rail side of milk depots to model but no luck yet.

CFJ
NGS Journal Editor

Offline johnlambert

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2015, 07:35:39 AM »
Fill from the top, empty from the bottom, logically enough!

You'd think, but I'm sure they weren't filled from the top as the churning effect could curdle the milk.

Offline NinOz

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2015, 07:41:22 AM »
Through taps at one or both ends of the tanker. Fill from the top, empty from the bottom, logically enough! Sometimes nothing more than a clean hose on a station platform was used, most notoriously at Vauxhall.
Excellent! Thank you. :thumbsup:
Stainless steel pipe work, hose and fittings washing station, flex hoses, water flush/wash hoses.

CFJ
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
I tried so hard to be snobbish and haughty.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2015, 08:27:49 AM »
Fill from the top, empty from the bottom, logically enough!
You'd think, but I'm sure they weren't filled from the top as the churning effect could curdle the milk.

I could well be wrong... never seen it being done live... but the photos I've seen have the cap open at top so churns could be emptied in. I'm sure it was pumped in too, perhaps more carefully to avoid the problem you suggest.

There's a photo of a filler cap open, here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railway_Milk_Tank_Wagon#/media/File:United_Dairies_milk_tank_HK.JPG

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline Sprintex

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2015, 09:22:46 AM »
Fill from the top, empty from the bottom, logically enough!

You'd think, but I'm sure they weren't filled from the top as the churning effect could curdle the milk.

I may be able to provide some useful info here (for a change!) as I did some work on milk tankers as an HGV driver for Dairy Crest.

Our trailers had walkways and caps on top just like the rail tankers, but this was only ever used for 'dipping' for samples to be tested for disease or contamination before the load was accepted. Milk was always pumped in at the farms, and pumped out at the dairy, using the valve gear at the rear of the truck, so presumably rail tankers have something similar?

Much is made of the "churning effect" but you'd need to agitate the milk far more than that to affect it even slightly! We regularly did runs with only a part load (much worse than being full), and believe me with all the cornering, gear changes, and brake applications that a road journey involves that's a lot of sloshing about. In fact most of the time the truck never stopped oscillating back and forth even when stopped at trafficlights - a weird sensation to say the least ;)


Paul

Offline NeMo

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2015, 10:20:31 AM »
This is very useful, albeit an American rather than British book:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VSoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=filling+milk+rail+tanks&source=bl&ots=T9c8jxa_1Z&sig=vu6FGfMXxQBCVkAPn6bn2pOkhLQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBWoVChMIvoecvuyRyAIVhSPbCh2WoAjz#v=onepage&q=filling%20milk%20rail%20tanks&f=false

Milk is filled via the manhole at the top, but the pipe from the manhole extends downwards almost to the bottom of the tank and through a floating mechanism that prevents splashing.

British tanks would seem to have been similar, and it turns out the cap at the top is indeed called the filling cap.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline REGP

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2015, 05:53:47 PM »
I've got myself a bit confused over which livery would normally appear in which region.

I am sure at some point in one of the discussions it was suggested that the silver Unigate liveried milk tankers were most likely to be found on West Region metals whilst the Express Dairies ones would probably be on Midland Region (or was it the other way round?)

Although I've looked through the various Milk Train threads I can't find an actual reference to this, of course I could have simply missed it if didn't having flashing lights on it.

Can any one please point me to that reference or confirm if either of the above is correct.

Ray

Offline JasonBz

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2015, 06:01:24 PM »
I am pretty sure that Milk Tankers were filled from the bottom. Some chap who had done the job wrote into RM (probably) to enlighten the readership. The top entry was for hot water to clean the tanks out.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2015, 06:11:00 PM »
I am sure at some point in one of the discussions it was suggested that the silver Unigate liveried milk tankers were most likely to be found on West Region metals whilst the Express Dairies ones would probably be on Midland Region (or was it the other way round?)

Historically Express Dairies tankers ran on both the Western and the London Midland regions, whereas Unigate tankers seem to have been primarily seen on the Western Region and the Southern Region. So some overlap. If you're modelling the Western Region, you can use either without having to invoke Rule 1.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline REGP

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2015, 08:26:19 PM »
Thanks NeMo, that's a great help especially as I am "loosely" modelling a joint X GWR / LMS line. I just need to get the loco & brake correct.

Ray

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2015, 09:21:06 PM »
I've got myself a bit confused over which livery would normally appear in which region.

I am sure at some point in one of the discussions it was suggested that the silver Unigate liveried milk tankers were most likely to be found on West Region metals whilst the Express Dairies ones would probably be on Midland Region (or was it the other way round?)

Although I've looked through the various Milk Train threads I can't find an actual reference to this, of course I could have simply missed it if didn't having flashing lights on it.

Can any one please point me to that reference or confirm if either of the above is correct.
Here is a brief summary of which Dairies operated on which regions. The  whole issue is complicated by the fact that the history of the dairy industry is one of take-overs, mergers and consolidation but the list below gives a good indication of what could be found where.

GWR/WR:
United Dairies (later Unigate)
Express Dairies
Milk Marketing Board
Nestle
CWS Dairies

S&D:
United Dairies (later Unigate)
Milk Marketing Board

LMS:
Express Dairies
Nestle
Milk Marketing Board

SR:
Express Dairies
United Dairies (later Unigate)
Co-Op

LNER:
Co-op
Nestle
Express Dairies
United Dairies (later Unigate)

Great Central:
IMS
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline JasonBz

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2015, 09:48:43 PM »
Slightly OT, but in reference to quantities of milk; something like a whole quarter of the "national herd" of dairy cattle live in the West Country - That is a lot of cows in two, maybe three, and a bit counties!

Offline martyn

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2016, 05:30:39 PM »
I'm surprised this has not been mentioned here before-the May 2016 Hornby magazine has an article dedicated to Milk train formations, which seem to be all BR era, but widely spread geographically. The article includes loco type, number of milk tanks, other vehicles in the formation, location, destination/origin, and date.
Martyn

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2017, 12:20:56 PM »
Fill from the top, empty from the bottom, logically enough!


You'd think, but I'm sure they weren't filled from the top as the churning effect could curdle the milk.


Pretty sure tankers were top-filled. You can see the process in this photo from St Erth.



You can see the pipework for the top filling here at Torrington.



And you can see top-filling here at Seaton too.



Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline NeMo

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Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2017, 03:05:55 PM »
@Karhedron,

Yes, but the milk goes down a pipe to the bottom of the tanker, so the tanker slowly fills upwards from the bottom up. If you just poured the milk into a big empty tank without tubes or baffles, there's apparently an undesirable churning effect. Such, at least, is the case with milk tankers I could find out about.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

 

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