!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Milk Train Brake Vans  (Read 17373 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline davidinyork

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 860
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2015, 07:35:42 PM »
On a related theme, when were milk churns carried from rural stations until, and what sort of vehicle were these normally carried in in the latter days?

Offline EtchedPixels

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16353
  • 2mm Association Number: 4412
  • Posts: 8278
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Google+
    • Twitter
    • YouTube
    • Etched Pixels
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2015, 07:43:21 PM »
Not sure on date but usually well ventilated vans.. often bogie ones. The classic GWR ones being the siphon wagons
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Dancess

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 4344
  • Posts: 179
  • Country: fr
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2015, 09:31:58 PM »
You might find the following interesting.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/7-fops/fo-milk.htm
Building layout in attic - at last!!

Offline CarriageShed

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24383
  • Posts: 2677
  • Country: ee
  • Gender: Male
  • Beechinged 1981-2013
    • Ebay
    • Twitter
    • The History Files
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2015, 05:03:12 PM »
On a related theme, when were milk churns carried from rural stations until, and what sort of vehicle were these normally carried in in the latter days?

Without checking in detail, four-wheel milk tanks were introduced in the late 1920s and six-wheel versions in the very early 1930s, at least on the S&DJR and Southern (and probably LMS too). That would have seen the end of milk churns.

Offline davidinyork

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 860
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2015, 05:06:24 PM »
On a related theme, when were milk churns carried from rural stations until, and what sort of vehicle were these normally carried in in the latter days?

Without checking in detail, four-wheel milk tanks were introduced in the late 1920s and six-wheel versions in the very early 1930s, at least on the S&DJR and Southern (and probably LMS too). That would have seen the end of milk churns.

But would smaller rural stations have had the facilities to be able to fill the tanks?

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2380
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2015, 07:03:50 PM »
On a related theme, when were milk churns carried from rural stations until, and what sort of vehicle were these normally carried in in the latter days?
Without checking in detail, four-wheel milk tanks were introduced in the late 1920s and six-wheel versions in the very early 1930s, at least on the S&DJR and Southern (and probably LMS too). That would have seen the end of milk churns.
But would smaller rural stations have had the facilities to be able to fill the tanks?
No, it took a long time for smaller facilities to be upgraded or phased out of use. Milk churn traffic continued long after the introduction of tankers (which initially worked only from the newest facilities). What really put the writing on the wall for churn traffic was the footplate strike of 1955. Milk in churns was not cooled and insulated the way tanker milk was and so was prone to spoiling. The last date I have for churn traffic was 1961 but it would have been pretty rare for a few years before that date.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Online ten0G

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2015, 10:48:16 AM »
The milk tankers from Moreton-in-the-Marsh were attached behind the Paddington express but I am not sure how long this arrangement lasted. I believe it was still the practice in the early 50s but I have not been able to find out if it lasted into the 60s.

I'm curious to know if this was the Cathedrals Express.  How many tankers, and where do you think they came off, please? 

It's been a few years since I travelled that way, I hear the track's finally been doubled again. 

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2380
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2015, 11:54:25 AM »
I believe that the maximum number of tankers attached at one time from Moreton-in-the-Marsh was 3.

As to where they came off, there are a couple of options. It was a United Dairies/Unigate facility so they would probably have gone to a matching bottling plant, my guess would be Wood Lane but there were other Unigate bottling plants in London. In fact there may have been some variation so as to balance the flow of milk with the demand at the various bottling plants.

I suspect that they probably ran through and were detached at Paddington, I doubt they would have stopped a passenger express a few miles out just to detach tankers. From there they might have been tripped directly to the bottling plant. More likely though is that they were tripped to Kensington Olympia which acted as a marshalling yard for milk traffic.

Trains running into London were normally a mix of tankers from different dairies as the routes of milk trains rarely supported single-dairy trains (apart from the 70s where only Unigate and Express Dairies remained in operation). These trains would be tripped to Olympia and then sorted by company before being tripped to the relevant bottling plant (probably along with tankers from other routes). The reverse operation occurred on the outbound journey but with fewer trains as empty milk tankers were much lighter and could be marshalled into longer trains. Also, they did not need to run so fast without their perishable contents.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Online ten0G

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2015, 10:35:34 PM »
The milk tankers from Moreton-in-the-Marsh were attached behind the Paddington express but I am not sure how long this arrangement lasted. I believe it was still the practice in the early 50s but I have not been able to find out if it lasted into the 60s.

Apparently, after 1959 four and six wheeled goods vehicles were banned from passenger trains: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_railway_milk_trains#List_of_railway_connected_dairies.2C_1956

See para.2 under "Operations."

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2380
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2015, 07:01:02 PM »
Ah but milk tankers were not goods vehicles. They were NPCCS and so the restriction on freight vehicles in passenger trains did not apply.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline leachsprite4

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2015, 09:41:06 PM »
This has been a very helpful thread combined with the other discussions on milk tankers. My two four wheel ones are destined for engine shed duties to hold water for boiler washouts.

So I could run my milk tankers, a siphon and collet full break as one train?

Graham

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2380
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2015, 10:17:25 PM »
So I could run my milk tankers, a siphon and collet full break as one train?

Yup, that would be a perfectly prototypical train. In fact here is a Castle hauling just such a train in the mid 50s.

Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline leachsprite4

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2015, 10:57:50 PM »
Happy days, now where is that farish castle  of mine :hmmm:

Offline MalcolmInN

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2291
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2015, 11:13:10 PM »
So I could run my milk tankers, a siphon and collet full break as one train?
Yup, that would be a perfectly prototypical train. In fact here is a Castle hauling just such a train in the mid 50s.
All very interesting.
Do you have a higher res pic of that ?
what are the 3 ? behind
Not sure if it is 3 ( or 4 to count the fuzzy blob  between them ! )
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 11:14:18 PM by MalcolmAL »

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2380
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Milk Train Brake Vans
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2015, 11:22:04 PM »
Sorry, no higher res available. The consist looks like 8 tankers, a collett full brake, another tanker and 2  Siphons. I cannot make out the Siphons very well but they might be Siphon Gs.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

 

Please Support Us!
September Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Sep 30
Total Receipts: £30.00
Below Goal: £25.00
Site Currency: GBP
55% 
September Donations

anything