Ok, so of  the rules are in favour of the driver you support then there is nothing wrong with them.
And if Lewis / Mercedes had not changed to hard tyres during the yellow flag but Max would have done that then there would not have been a discussion about that either.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that Max was wrong in trying to overtake Lewis and that 'letting Lewis pass' was not his intention at all.
He had no chance to win the race anyway because of their choice for the yellow tire.

But now you make it seem that every rule in F1 is unfair and should be changed.
Suppose Max would have been on white tires in the last stint and Lewis had not been able to overtake him.
The 10 sec penalty would have meant second place for Max then.
It doesn't seem like a lot but 10 seconds is a lot of time in F1.
And a grid penalty means nothing these days. If Lewis of Max start in the back of the field they finish second or even first.
Unlike the other drivers of the same teams who are stuck in traffic most of the times.

I'm looking forward to the last race. May the best man (and car) win. In a fair race!!

Jan

Quote from: JanW on December 06, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
Ok, so of  the rules are in favour of the driver you support then there is nothing wrong with them.

What?

I just stated the facts, it was within the rules as RB were told by Massi

What I don't understand is that this year there seems to be a whole range of scenarios that race control have not encountered before and have seemingly made up ways to deal with it on the hoof. But back in the day there were rules for every possible occurrence imaginable with clear processes for dealing with them. I know F1 has new ownership, a new race director, but all still sanctioned by the FIA. Surely those rules still exist?
A race consisting of two laps behind a safety car would not have happened in Bernie's day, under Charlie Whiting's supervision.
There can't be many series that allow teams to work on their cars during a red flag period.

Sorry, this was not meant as a personal attack or anything like it.
But I understand you felt it that way now I reread my own words. Sorry for that.
And it is certainly not my intention to start the same discussion we see on the track or in the paddock. Far from it!

My real intention was to say that Max was wrong (i did say that) and that the rules would have had the desired effect if Max had kept his track position.
And it is because of the extreme difference between Lewis/Max and the rest that he didn't lose more points.

While typing this message I was thinking that I could start a second hobby: slot car racing.
Has anyone ever seen a slot car track with scenery?

Jan

Quote from: JanW on December 06, 2021, 09:37:14 PM

While typing this message I was thinking that I could start a second hobby: slot car racing.
Has anyone ever seen a slot car track with scenery?

Jan

Probably a bit tricky in 1:148 although the old Lima 31 could go just as fast as a real car and made the right noise.

Maybe not as bad as 'Kingspan', which shows a complete lack of sensitivity

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mercedes-could-re-evaluate-kingspan-f1-deal-after-backlash/6852766/

Quote from: JanW on December 06, 2021, 09:37:14 PM

While typing this message I was thinking that I could start a second hobby: slot car racing.
Has anyone ever seen a slot car track with scenery?

Jan

Yes, but unless you're planning to use HO or 1/48th slot cars (which are rubbish), you need quite a large space or need to create quite a small track. Then again a Rallycross track such as Lidden Hill would work really well as a relatively small, scenic track without too much compression.

Perhaps F1 should install slots at all circuits to keep the Flying Dutchman on line and on the track! 

Quote from: Bob Tidbury on December 06, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
That was a blatant brake test by Verstappen ,Hamilton didnt have a chance to avoid running into the back of him ,if you are going to abide by the rules Verstappen should have gone to the left or right to let Hamilton pass safely .That just shows what a childish driver he is .I think he should get some form of penalty for that .
It seems that someone is derermined that Hamilton wont win the Championship this year . That race was a total farce .
Bob Tidbury

I agree, and add that it is a symptom of the poor control of races by the Stewards that has got progressively worse as the season runs on. I suspect the new owners requirement that races are nullified if one driver is a long way ahead with a few laps of safety car. The fiasco at Spa this year was a blatant attempt to engineer a close finish to the season and they seem to have been successful in that we have equal points for the last race.

I used to watch Champ cars (remember that breakaway from Indy cars) and Nascar and they had fairly regular and very similar stewarding decisions.

Quote from: Mr Sprue on December 07, 2021, 10:57:26 AM

Shouldn't that be RB's new sponsor? I've not seen too much going the way of Mercedes from the stewards, they seem pretty set on getting a new winner!

As Newport Nobby said that was a big big mistake putting Kingspan on the Mercedes Car though Kingspan have said there wasnt a lot of their product on the Grenfell Tower .
Bob Tidbury

Quote from: Bob Tidbury on December 07, 2021, 06:13:04 PM
As Newport Nobby said that was a big big mistake putting Kingspan on the Mercedes Car though Kingspan have said there wasnt a lot of their product on the Grenfell Tower .
Bob Tidbury

From what I read, what Kingspan product was put on the tower was without their knowledge and against their recommendation.
Given the scale of the tragedy and the serious amount of grift and general dodgyness involved in what led up to it though. I think any company involved in it, however tangentially, is high risk as a potential sponsor.

Quote from: zwilnik on December 07, 2021, 06:34:10 PM
From what I read, what Kingspan product was put on the tower was without their knowledge and against their recommendation.
Given the scale of the tragedy and the serious amount of grift and general dodgyness involved in what led up to it though. I think any company involved in it, however tangentially, is high risk as a potential sponsor.

In motor racing terms, the media vilifying Kingspan (and politicians jumping on the bandwagon) is the equivalent of blaming Pirelli for the car on slicks crashing in the wet when everyone else is on treaded tyres...
It is clearly not the safe & sensible thing to do and clearly against the manufacturer's recommendations, but you just know someone will be stupid enough to risk it...

The flip side of the whole Kingspan thing is that they're a huge multinational corporation, most of whom will have courted controversy. We had tobacco companies for decades, their products have killed millions of people, more directly than Kingspan's.