Quote from: JayM481 on April 25, 2016, 09:52:12 PM... I just bought a sound-equipped Atlas switcher for $300 Canadian (about £140). I know, economies of scale make a huge difference when comparing US to UK or Continental.

Yes, and I am sure it's a lovely model, but unless you're modelling the appropriate location for that loco, or are a genuine rule-1 enthusiast, it's irrelevant.

I think some US models look lovely, but I would never buy them as they are utterly wrong for Horseley Fields or any other layout I am ever likely to run them on!

Cheers

Ben A.

Quote from: Les1952 on April 25, 2016, 06:25:59 PM

Quote from: class37025 on April 25, 2016, 03:23:20 PM
perhaps a way to compare prices is, rather than the £.s.d cost of the item, consider how long you need to work for to earn the money to pay for it.

certainly when you look back over the years, it is interesting to see how this equates.

for instance, back in the 60s a series one airfix kit was 2/-, or 10p.
now it's £4.99, or about 50 times the cost.

have your wages gone up 50 times since then ?

in those days I was on about £30 a month, when I retired I was on about £1,700 a month, what's that, about 56 times, so in theory that kit still costs the same 

OK where did I go wrong, or is that right 

You didn't.

I started teaching in 1973 on £79 a month after offtakes, and retired on about £2800 a month after offtakes.  However I had a few promotions in that time but a teacher starting at the same point as I did would be on about £1500 a month after offtakes, I think.  A little less than 50X as much.

My pension doesn't go as far as I'd like it to, but I've spent steadily on modelling for over 50 years and recycled the cash when changing scales.  I afforded the change to DCC by selling stock that didn't fit the period any more.  The track for my next N-gauge layout will come from selling Furtwangen Ost.

The ones I feel more sorry for are the youngsters.  However this hobby is still cheaper than drinking yourself stupid each week or smoking 50 a day (both of which one grandfather did), and think how many trains you can buy for the price of a season ticket to a Premier League football club.

Les

And to give this comparison another take, RPI in mid 1965 was c 15.  Earlier this year it was c 260.  Increase factor less than 20.  So the Airfix kit has rocketed by comparison with general inflation.  On an earlier thread I looked at Sept 1976 when I bought a new Minitrix Brit for a bit under £15 - from memory it was £13.50.  In that time the increase in RPI has been a factor of 6.5.  What are Dapol Brits going for now?  Of course the quality of detail and accuracy is vastly superior.  I will pass on robustness and reliability, though mine thankfully has been fine.

When I left school in 1971 my initial salary on BR was £890 pa - from memory take home approx £13 per week.  No idea what the equivalent grade of trainee accountant would be paid now.

Quote from: Portpatrick on April 25, 2016, 11:37:02 PM

Quote from: Les1952 on April 25, 2016, 06:25:59 PM

Quote from: class37025 on April 25, 2016, 03:23:20 PM
perhaps a way to compare prices is, rather than the £.s.d cost of the item, consider how long you need to work for to earn the money to pay for it.

certainly when you look back over the years, it is interesting to see how this equates.

for instance, back in the 60s a series one airfix kit was 2/-, or 10p.
now it's £4.99, or about 50 times the cost.

have your wages gone up 50 times since then ?

in those days I was on about £30 a month, when I retired I was on about £1,700 a month, what's that, about 56 times, so in theory that kit still costs the same 

OK where did I go wrong, or is that right 

You didn't.

I started teaching in 1973 on £79 a month after offtakes, and retired on about £2800 a month after offtakes.  However I had a few promotions in that time but a teacher starting at the same point as I did would be on about £1500 a month after offtakes, I think.  A little less than 50X as much.

My pension doesn't go as far as I'd like it to, but I've spent steadily on modelling for over 50 years and recycled the cash when changing scales.  I afforded the change to DCC by selling stock that didn't fit the period any more.  The track for my next N-gauge layout will come from selling Furtwangen Ost.

The ones I feel more sorry for are the youngsters.  However this hobby is still cheaper than drinking yourself stupid each week or smoking 50 a day (both of which one grandfather did), and think how many trains you can buy for the price of a season ticket to a Premier League football club.

Les

And to give this comparison another take, RPI in mid 1965 was c 15.  Earlier this year it was c 260.  Increase factor less than 20.  So the Airfix kit has rocketed by comparison with general inflation.  On an earlier thread I looked at Sept 1976 when I bought a new Minitrix Brit for a bit under £15 - from memory it was £13.50.  In that time the increase in RPI has been a factor of 6.5.  What are Dapol Brits going for now?  Of course the quality of detail and accuracy is vastly superior.  I will pass on robustness and reliability, though mine thankfully has been fine.

When I left school in 1971 my initial salary on BR was £890 pa - from memory take home approx £13 per week.  No idea what the equivalent grade of trainee accountant would be paid now.

In the 1979 price list it was £21.95 so assuming a an RPI uplift of 6 you get £131.70.

A trainee accountant fresh from college might start
on £15,000 - £19,000  depending on qualification
location and also whether in  industry or practice.

A bit off topic, but years ago as an accountant in Glasgow
one client was a well known Old Firm footballer and
international player. I was earning 1/10 of his wages,
nowadays if the same fraction applied I'd be on
approx £250,000. Enough to buy an SBB krokodil
(model not real)

Thought I'd add if cash is tight no need to try and
buy large amounts of stock , instead build a small
layout like Littleton Curve deceptively simple  where
the emphasis is on scenery, just an oval , passing loop ,
loco and some trucks. A small tank engine or shunter
doesn't cost the earth and a few Peco truck kits won't
break the bank.

Just an observation but Hattons have the Farish MK2F priced at 17.81, which will obviously change once it's released. The price of MK1 and MK2's at that time were 17.81 but are now priced at 25.46.  The announcement of the MK2F's was only 2 or 3 years ago so we can see how much the cost has gone up.   A high percentage of goods we use in the US is imported from China and I can honestly say that I haven't  noticed any significant increases in any other imported goods from China other than British outline model railways and in particular rolling stock. 

I'm just rebuilding a pickup truck I bought a while ago and made a list of the new parts I need. Many of these parts are obsolete here in the States and are manufactured off shore, mainly in China. The list was made well over a year ago and most parts have been purchased already. Going back through the list there have been very few price increases and those that did were minimal.  I'm confused......

The problem is model railways in China are made to special order. 

If you think the guys making our models are also making millions of moldings for mobile phones, and are being screwed to the floor on price, of course they will want to make money on the specials.  Their sales pitch is pay or go away.

We also have a particular problem in the UK that the pound has weakened meaning its costing us more even if the factory door price stays the same.

Quote from: Agrippa on April 25, 2016, 08:23:47 AM
How long can this topic be sustainable?

Be careful what you wish for

Quote from: Agrippa on April 26, 2016, 12:17:05 AM
Thought I'd add if cash is tight no need to try and
buy large amounts of stock , instead build a small
layout like Littleton Curve deceptively simple  where
the emphasis is on scenery, just an oval , passing loop ,
loco and some trucks. A small tank engine or shunter
doesn't cost the earth and a few Peco truck kits won't
break the bank.

That is the "problem" though - the Collector takes over from the Modeller kinda attitude...small trains and their surroundings cease to become something to model and are something to buy.
Look at my expensive shiny new toy......

Hi Jason,

That's absolutely right, though with a slight caveat.

Most of us probably imagine our model railway represents a real or plausible location, and is part of an imagined wider network.

In this context, there is always an excuse for another train different to the last.

Plus, for some of us there are missing items - on our club layout Horseley Fields, for example, we really need 323s, car trains, 175s and so on.  While we do have enough stock to fill the fiddle yard with prototypically correct(ish) trains, when/if models of these essential items become available we will get them.

Cheers

Ben A.

In all this, I am mostly stocked up both for Portpatrick Town, and the new more current based layout On which I was track laying yesterday.  I have reduced my purchase list to a minimum, incl DJM's Claytons.  Many of the gaps I would like to  fill are too specialist for anyone to fill,  pity the 21/29 did not come off.  So some bashing of 2nd hand, may be on the cards.  Now I am retired this may be as well!  I am not now doubling up just for fun, different numbers etc.

Thanks for more up to date salary info Agrippa.  I was an A level entrant so was at the bottom end.  Graduates entrants started on something like £1100.

Figures of course are all relative, ie years ago a Mini was about  £700.
I can also  recall shock headlines in the papers like "Pint of beer to hit £2 "
With modelling British outline in N with two main suppliers and I assume
Farish sells approx 3-4 times Dapol, there is little alternative other than
kitbuilding which needs a chassis in any case and requires a high degree
of skill. Of course UM produce their range at modest prices and
are lovely locos though if you model post steam they don't appeal.

Quote from: Ben A on April 25, 2016, 11:29:30 PM

Quote from: JayM481 on April 25, 2016, 09:52:12 PM... I just bought a sound-equipped Atlas switcher for $300 Canadian (about £140). I know, economies of scale make a huge difference when comparing US to UK or Continental.

Yes, and I am sure it's a lovely model, but unless you're modelling the appropriate location for that loco, or are a genuine rule-1 enthusiast, it's irrelevant.

I think some US models look lovely, but I would never buy them as they are utterly wrong for Horseley Fields or any other layout I am ever likely to run them on!

Cheers

Ben A.

'Twasn't I who brought up Continental models, which likely look as much out of place on Horseley Fields. The point, which I probably could have made better, is that Continental or US model prices have no bearing on prices of UK outline models. Saying "but look at the price of Fleischmann..." isn't relevant either.

And I do model the appropriate location, but I thought this thread was a bit more general than a comment on what is appropriate for Horseley Fields. Lovely layout that it is, nothing I have UK outline fits there either.

Jay

Quote from: JayM481 on April 26, 2016, 10:13:37 PM... is that Continental or US model prices have no bearing on prices of UK outline models. Saying "but look at the price of Fleischmann..." isn't relevant either.

Jay

Hi Jay,

Yes, that's fair enough, though I always tend to feel that the German or Swiss markets are probably closer in size to the British market, making for a more helpfully comparative figure.

Broadly though I think that we are in agreement here: whether you are saying "I can buy a US loco and 10 freight cars for the equivalent of £50" or  "this Continental outlines shunter cost me £150" the point is the same - comparisons with the prices of models elsewhere depend on some factors that aren't applicable in the UK.

Cheers

Ben A.

Quote from: JayM481 on April 25, 2016, 09:52:12 PM
But contrast that with US outline. I just bought a sound-equipped Atlas switcher for $300 Canadian (about £140). I know, economies of scale make a huge difference when comparing US to UK or Continental.

Those economies of scale in terms of number of sales make a massive difference as you are amortising the development and tooling costs over a much larger number of models which has a drastic impact on price eg for an unpowered model:

Tooling and development cost of $30,000 and unit cost of say $10 across 1000 models = unit cost price $40
Same costs across 5000 models = unit cost price $16
Same costs across 10000 models = unit cost price $11

Deliberately simplified costs but you get the point that size of market is crucial.

Cheers, Mike