Hornby TT gauge is announced

[SD35]

I scaled up my Hardendale lime hoppers to 1:120 and ordered a print which has just arrived. The scale difference with N doesn't seem a lot on paper but comparing the two sat together on the desk, the TT one feels a lot bigger.

[Bealman]

It is bigger!

I don't why people are comparing it to N gauge. May as well compare it to OO.

It's halfway between the two!

[Roy L S]

It is bigger!

I don't why people are comparing it to N gauge. May as well compare it to OO.

It's halfway between the two!

British N = 2.065mm/1ft

TT120 = 2.5mm/1ft

OO = 4mm/1ft

So actually it is quite a bit closer to N than OO.

I have kept from commenting on this thread in recent days, but personally I do not see TT120 as a particular challenge to British N but the test will be to see the quality of the products when the sets arrive. I envisage a lot of "Design Clever" which may be more forgivable in this scale, but I have a feeling they won't be as detailed as their N counterparts as they are aimed at a different market.

I read somewhere in this thread that the valve-gear of the A4 was better detailed than Dapol's. I would challenge this - the late BR Dapol A4 has both a lubricator link and speedo drive on the rear axles, no sign of this on any of the TT120 variants.

Roy

[bluedepot]

i agree roy

i dont think the detail will be that great on the hornby tt product's because they arent going after the train enthusiast market / want to keep the cost down.

anyway we shall see!


tim

[Bob G]

i dont think the detail will be that great on the hornby tt product's because they arent going after the train enthusiast market / want to keep the cost down.

Hornby already have "Railroad" and "Railroad plus" in OO. to cater for modellers seeking lower overall quality/better value trains. Why would you tool up a new scale, scare away other entrants (Heljan), and go for a low quality product from the start, where you are the only player in town?

That doesn't sound like a good plan to me, when modellers are now used to mix and match.

Bob

[Rabbitaway]

Roy

It was my comment on the A4 valve gear, I saw the TT A4 at Kings Cross, and stated the valve gear was "better" than the Dapol A4. The comment was not about detail, it was about fit, finish and quality of rivets, just far better built than the Dapol valve gear, although the detail looked good as well. I have had to send both a Dapol A3 and A4 back for replacements as the valve gear fell apart with in the first few circuits of my layout, and as an experienced modeller, I do know how the handle delicate N gauge locos

Again seeing these models in the flash, on a layout, they do not look a great deal bigger than British N gauge. At first glance could be mistaken for N gauge but certainly not 00

[njee20]

As I said, I disagree, I was actually surprised how much bigger than N they looked, moreso than I expected. But evidently it's entire subjective. I know nothing about valve gear.

[ntpntpntp]

Noticeably bigger to me (the perspective makes it look like less difference than there actually is)




Anyway my sample of Peco TT:120 track and points arrived today in readiness for a possible layout at some point in the future.   I've spent a few minutes re-gauging some old Triang TT stock so it runs through the point frogs and blades. They just need the back-to-back widened by approximately 0.5mm.  I had to dismantle my ancient Castle class to get to the drive wheels and adjust them using a makeshift puller/pusher tool.

[Rabbitaway]

You should be mindful that you are comparing a 1:160 loco to 1:120 not a British 1:148

[ntpntpntp]

You should be mindful that you are comparing a 1:160 loco to 1:120 not a British 1:148

Yes I know that, but given that British locos and stock are built to a smaller loading gauge than the Continental stuff the physical size of the models tends to be similar.

[edit]You are correct though, the difference between the two will be a little less comparing the same loco @ 1:148 and 1:120, but I would say it's still significant and as I mentioned my photo above makes the TT model seem a little smaller than it actually is in relation to the N model.

[davidinyork]

If it takes off, other manufacturers get involved hence reduced production slots for N.

Will people look more favourable on TT than N as a space saver, I certainly may have years ago. N is only a small percentage of the sales of model railways will TT see it reduced further

I've only just seen these Hornby announcements, and that was my first thought as well. Is there really space in the market for another gauge without seeing a decline in popularity of one of the existing ones? Perhaps not - and if this works for Hornby other manufacturers may move towards it, and if that means reduced production in another gauge then that's likely to be N, given that models in N only sell a fraction of the numbers which those in OO do.

That said, so far as I can see Hornby don't intend to sell through shops, which seems a really odd decision - given that it's a novelty, many people will want to see and handle the models before thinking about buying them.

[woodbury22uk]

Gaugemaster have now decided not to develop a British range in TT:120.

"Following Hornby's news that they have developed an expansive range of TT:120 products which they intend to supply exclusively via their own website, it makes little or no commercial sense for us to develop a complimentary range of products in this scale.

Gaugemaster are committed to supporting our crucial network of UK model and hobby retailers, who continue to be the backbone of our industry and an essential resource to the modelling community.  It is difficult for us to see why UK dealers would want to stock a range of British TT products when nearly all the reward in this scale would be beyond their reach.  We will continue to offer the large range of European TT products from brands such as Herpa, Noch, Piko, Preiser, Roco and Viessmann which have always been available for dealers to order, or to buy direct from ourselves.

Instead, we will continue to work independently and with partner brands across the more established scales such as OO, N and O to develop widely available new products.  We will share details of these with you over the coming weeks.

Everyone here wishes our friends at Hornby all the very best of luck with their new venture and as modellers, we look forward to seeing their huge number of newly-announced TT:120 models emerge over the coming years."

[maridunian]

Gaugemaster have now decided not to develop a British range in TT:120.

"Following Hornby's news that they have developed an expansive range of TT:120 products which they intend to supply exclusively via their own website, it makes little or no commercial sense for us to develop a complimentary range of products in this scale.
"

This is a shame.

Not sure I understand their logic though. If Hornby are doing the heavy lifting, making major capital investments and widespread marketing to build a substantial new modelling community, Gaugemaster can surely benefit from offering products that complement Hornby's range. I can see they'll be peeved about the Class 66, but there must be room for many complementary variants and liveries, including international. As  for other prototypes, even Hornby's extensive range has huge regional/period gaps that beg filling.

Speaking for myself, Maridunian's Models have always been gap fillers, and with one exception so far, my TT:120-rescaled models remain that. Once Hornby chasses are available, I shall drop mine, but they were necessary to get myself started. If interest grows I shall rescale some other gap-fillers from my existing range, otherwise nothing's lost.

Gaugemaster say they will carry on offering accessories, which with Peco's lineside building kits should hopefully ensure TT scale doesn't become an exclusively spoon-fed community.

Mike

[zwilnik]

Gaugemaster have now decided not to develop a British range in TT:120.

"Following Hornby's news that they have developed an expansive range of TT:120 products which they intend to supply exclusively via their own website, it makes little or no commercial sense for us to develop a complimentary range of products in this scale.
"

This is a shame.

Not sure I understand their logic though. If Hornby are doing the heavy lifting, making major capital investments and widespread marketing to build a substantial new modelling community, Gaugemaster can surely benefit from offering products that complement Hornby's range. I can see they'll be peeved about the Class 66, but there must be room for many complementary variants and liveries, including international. As  for other prototypes, even Hornby's extensive range has huge regional/period gaps that beg filling.

My take on it is that it isn't the range that Hornby's offering, it's the way they're exclusively selling it from the Hornby site. From Gaugemaster's point of view, anything they sell to fill in the gaps ultimately benefits Hornby by driving modellers to the Hornby website for the main bits and promotes Hornby's range (which they could expand to grab any of their competitors bits if they see profit) but nothing Hornby does even mentions Gaugemaster or anyone else providing TT bits and won't be seen alongside them, so won't generate any sales for Gaugemaster. Essentially it's a one way door in Hornby's favour.

[Gwalton]

I have decided to jump onto the TT boat
When I made the decision Heljan, Hornby, Gaugemaster and Peco were all producing models, then Heljan bailed out because Hornby produce the models Heljan announced in OO gauge and they had also announced the class 08 in TT, so it appears Hornby may have said something to Heljan about future TT models or Heljan are just assuming that Hornby will rescale their OO gauge Class 31 and 060 tank loco.

Hornby are selling their range direct from the Hornby website, you can join the TT 120 club for free until Jan 30th 2023 and instantly get a 15% discount. therefore a next 18 DCC ready class 50 costs £124.09 after the discount and the class 08 costs £101.14, postage is free.

Dapol announced a price increase this week.

I also found this website https://lincoln-loco.co.uk/the-gallery/ 
they produce 3D printed TT scale models and cover quite a lot of class's including the AC electrics class 81 to 86. you dont get this option in OO gauge nevermind N, they posted a blog this week saying the vast majority of their kits will be available in 1:120. I have done some asking and found out that the 3D print includes the body and underframe. I am now asking fellow TT modellers for chassis information.

Reasons for changing scales is because I have seen the Hornby range 1st hand, the class 50 and 56 which they do in OO gauge are superb, I have no doubts that when Hornby do the class 56 in TT, it will be miniature version of the OO gauge model with the correct roof for the era, Simon Kohler has said they will do the correct toolings, this is something that Dapol failed to do when they produced the class 56 in N gauge, some say the Dapol class 50 is too wide.

Scalescenes website say to purchase the OO gauge buildings, use the printer advanced settings to shrink it to 63% and its TT 1:120 scale.

Hopefully other manufacturers jump on board, but I think its the prices Hornby are retailing models at which is probably putting them off. Hornby are looking at outdated models they do in OO gauge and updating them to do in TT and also in OO, I guess this is the Railroad range (former Lima)

I can understand that there are modellers who do other scales and have been collecting for years who are probably reluctant to part with all that collection for something new which only has a handfull of models on offer, lets see where we are in a years time.