British N gauge Mechanical Quality

[David Bale]

Over the last 20 years I have bought about 25 N gauge locomotives, a mixture of Japanese Kato, Roco and Fleischmann. Most are Kato and none are Steam.
I have rarely bought Graham Farish due being poor quality, but I would love to model British Locomotives.

Last year I bought a Dapol Pannier Tank which I am impressed with, quiet and smooth although high speed quietness not relevant as not required.
Last week I bought a Dapol Class 121 with decoder fitted, I was shocked! Quite reasonable at slow speed but what a racket it makes when running at a prototypical fast speed! In general in the reviews I read about British Locomotives there is little criticism about the noise they typically make. I have done a bit investigation into the noise the 121 is making but can't see the reason. I have seen you can buy a coreless motor as a replacement. Is the Class 121 typical of Dapol Locomotives?

Am I expecting too much from British Locomotives?
In comparison to Kato do the mechanisms have to be inferior due to small numbers sold? I would favour more development on the mechanism and less on the detail, but I suspect my opinion is not typical in the UK.

[Steven B]

No you're not alone.
No the mechanisms don't have to be worse than Kato just because fewer are sold.
You can have both detail and a decent, quiet mechanism - Kato prove that again and again. There's no reason why Dapol's HST shouldn't run as well as a Kato Eurostar. A Farish class 37 should run as smoothly as a Kato SD40.

There's no doubt that British-outline models have got better over the years, but there's still room for improvement.



Steven B.

[David Bale]

I assume Dapol locomotives are made in China?
Wouldn't they be made in similar places to Kato?

[Train Waiting]

Am I expecting too much from British Locomotives?
In comparison to Kato do the mechanisms have to be inferior due to small numbers sold? I would favour more development on the mechanism and less on the detail, but I suspect my opinion is not typical in the UK.

Welcome aboard, David!

From your last sentence, you might like to try a Union Mills locomotive.  There is an impressive range; all steam, inside-cylindered tender engines.  And made in the Isle of Man!

With best wishes.

John

[David Bale]

How much?
Are they smooth and quiet?

[Train Waiting]

How much?
Are they smooth and quiet?

Hello David

I have put a link to the prices below.  I consider them to be both smooth and quiet.  And they have enormous pulling power.  Perhaps some other members will express an opinion in addition to mine.

Best wishes.

John

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=51362.msg672654#msg672654

[David Bale]

Ta I will have a look

[osborns]

David Bale  said Wouldn't they be made in similar places to Kato?

No almost all Kato is made in Japan (some buildings made in China) whereas all Bachmann made in china. BTW typical Kato production runs can reach 100,000 units I Believe. Others might not agree with me but Kato sueriority lies in their gear manufacture.

[Bigmac]

Dont rule out the most recent farish steam models from China...notably the tender locos..with coreless motors. I have a duchess, a 5mt. a  2mt and a 4f. Superb detail..quiet runners

[David Bale]

That's interesting to know, have you owned any Kato or Fleishman as a comparison? Do you know if the dapol 121 is a recent motor design?

[David Bale]

David Bale  said Wouldn't they be made in similar places to Kato?

No almost all Kato is made in Japan (some buildings made in China) whereas all Bachmann made in china. BTW typical Kato production runs can reach 100,000 units I Believe. Others might not agree with me but Kato sueriority lies in their gear manufacture.

Do you mean the actual 'gears' manufacture? Or the general machinery to build the whole item?
I would pay more for decent mechanical.

[Steven B]

The Dapol class 121 is a recent design with a modern motor.

The size of the production run should make little difference, except to the end price. A quite running model without the risk of split gears should be possible regardless of if you're building 100 or 100000.

I can't believe that the reasons are as simple as Chinese vs Japanese manufacturer. I'd guess Atlas models are Chinese made and they have the edge over Farish & Dapol.

My guess it's down to Chinese vs Japanese design and gear standards (inc. material specification) - Kato gears are typically coarser than those used by Dapol and Farish.



Steven B.

[David Bale]

You don't think it may be profit margins are lower due to small numbers so cheaper motors are fitted?
If they fitted a coreless motor would mean no profit?

[Paddy]

It must be challenging for British N Gauge manufacturers as they are expected (not unfairly) to deliver products that are 100% (even greater than this if you listen to some modellers!  ) accurate, have all the bells and whistles (DCC, lighting, sound), be mechanically top notch and err, sell for as little as possible.

My gut feeling would be that British N Gauge prices should be nearer our European cousins/significantly higher than OO given the market size.

And this is from someone who still mentally struggles with wagons costing more than £5, coaches £15 and locos £60! 

Kind regards

Paddy

[David Bale]

It must be challenging for British N Gauge manufacturers as they are expected (not unfairly) to deliver products that are 100% (even greater than this if you listen to some modellers!  ) accurate, have all the bells and whistles (DCC, lighting, sound), be mechanically top notch and err, sell for as little as possible.

My gut feeling would be that British N Gauge prices should be nearer our European cousins/significantly higher than OO given the market size.

And this is from someone who still mentally struggles with wagons costing more than £5, coaches £15 and locos £60! 

Kind regards

Paddy

I think you could be right about price, the class 121 with decoder is about £150
A Fleischmann equivalent would be about £75 extra.
I think the noise level that a farish or dapol make is not a priority over accuracy and detail for the average UK buyer. Or do they only attract these buyers because of this? This can seem bazzar with the influx of sound decoders!