Dapol Collett coaches at Hatton's.

Bob G · February 26, 2020, 10:27:14 PM

Quote from: Karhedron on February 26, 2020, 10:25:11 PM
Quote from: Bob G on February 26, 2020, 07:23:27 PM
I note the Farish Hawksworths have only been produced in WR Choc/Cream, BR(W) carmine/cream, and BR maroon.

Some hawksworth coaches were built before nationalisation and received authentic GWR choc and cream which farish have accurately reproduced.

Sorry I meant to say GWR Chocolate and cream. Fully agree the Farish liveries are real.

Ben A · February 26, 2020, 10:30:03 PM

Hello all,

The Collett BGs produced by the NGS for Dapol have flush glazing.

The liveries produced for the NGS were also authentic.

Cheers

Ben A.

Karhedron · February 26, 2020, 10:31:19 PM

Quote from: Bob G on February 26, 2020, 10:23:34 PM
What you said sounds ok, but why do they think they are selling these as BR versions then?

Ah, I see what you mean now.

Someone at Dapol seems to have gotten very confused. For the "BR" versions, they have omitted the crest and prefixed the running numbers with a "W". This is very odd and definitely not correct. None of these coaches wore chocolate and cream in BR days.

This is what happens when you don't have me checking the details for you. I can vouch for most of the NGS liveries as I researched the liveries and based them on the appropriate photos. Those ones above look like they have come from someone's imagination.

Paddy · February 27, 2020, 07:28:50 AM

Hi Matt ( @Karhedron )

Could it be that in 1948 these coaches were in chocolate and cream and the WR simply removed the crests and added the "W"? This livery then lasted until the next full repaint.

Kind regards

Paddy

Bob G · February 27, 2020, 07:48:53 AM

I have also wondered about the colour of the set used by City of Truro on its timetabled runs down the DN&SR to Southampton in the late 1950s. This pic from about 1957 appears to be crimson/cream but I suppose it could have been chocolate/cream, perhaps?

So sad when they could have used the Dapol Digest to get it right....
unless Hattons labelling is wrong....

Bob

Bob G · February 27, 2020, 07:55:47 AM

Quote from: Ben A on February 26, 2020, 10:30:03 PM

Hello all,

The Collett BGs produced by the NGS for Dapol have flush glazing.

The liveries produced for the NGS were also authentic.

Cheers

Ben A.

Never doubted it @Ben A .

longbow · February 27, 2020, 08:51:32 AM

QuoteI have also wondered about the colour of the set used by City of Truro on its timetabled runs down the DN&SR to Southampton in the late 1950s. This pic from about 1957 appears to be crimson/cream but I suppose it could have been chocolate/cream, perhaps?

It's unlikely to have been chocolate and cream, which was applied to a limited number of Mk1 express formations and to few if any ex GWR coaches.

Karhedron · February 27, 2020, 08:59:59 AM

Quote from: Paddy on February 27, 2020, 07:28:50 AM
Could it be that in 1948 these coaches were in chocolate and cream and the WR simply removed the crests and added the "W"? This livery then lasted until the next full repaint.

Possibly. Some Hawksworth coaches built in 1948 were turned out in this way. They were painted in chocolate and cream but without the crest and with a "W" prefix. A handful of Collett coaches going through the works for a repaint at the same time may have received similar treatment (I have a picture of a K40 or K41 somewhere that is in this livery). However it was isolated examples until the Crimson and Cream livery was introduced in 1949. I doubt that you would have seen a rake of them.

However I am pretty sure the WR didn't go through removing GWR crests and adding the W prefix to stock widely. It would only have been those coaches due for a repaint at the time that received this hybrid livery.

Karhedron · February 27, 2020, 09:07:30 AM

Quote from: Bob G on February 27, 2020, 07:48:53 AM
I have also wondered about the colour of the set used by City of Truro on its timetabled runs down the DN&SR to Southampton in the late 1950s. This pic from about 1957 appears to be crimson/cream but I suppose it could have been chocolate/cream, perhaps?

Possible but unlikely at that date. GWR Chocolate and Cream was pretty much extinct at that date and the WR chocolate and cream was mostly applied to Mk1 vehicles for named expresses. The clincher would be if a GWR crest were visible. Looking at those coaches (and other photos of CoT on the DN&SR like the one below) there is no sign of a GWR crest so I am fairly certain that those coaches would have been in BR Crimson and Cream livery.

Karhedron · February 27, 2020, 09:44:06 AM

Quote from: longbow on February 27, 2020, 08:51:32 AM
It's unlikely to have been chocolate and cream, which was applied to a limited number of Mk1 express formations and to few if any ex GWR coaches.

A handful of ex-GWR coaches received WR chocolate and cream in the late 50s. These were mostly catering vehicles as the WR hadn't received any MK1 catering vehicles at this point so continue to rely on ex-GWR vehicles, even in expresses that were otherwise composed of Mk1 stock.

There were also the Hawksworth slip coaches which had this livery applied, again as there were no BR equivalent vehicles. Here is one of them in 1962 on its way to Chard Junction.

There was also the Hawksworth dynamometer car seen here in 1961 at Marylebone.

Lastly there were the Hawksworth inspection saloons which also got to wear chocolate and cream (and could be mistaken for auto-coaches at a glance).

Paddy · February 27, 2020, 10:28:40 AM

Quote from: Karhedron on February 27, 2020, 08:59:59 AM
Quote from: Paddy on February 27, 2020, 07:28:50 AM
Could it be that in 1948 these coaches were in chocolate and cream and the WR simply removed the crests and added the "W"? This livery then lasted until the next full repaint.

Possibly. Some Hawksworth coaches built in 1948 were turned out in this way. They were painted in chocolate and cream but without the crest and with a "W" prefix. A handful of Collett coaches going through the works for a repaint at the same time may have received similar treatment (I have a picture of a K40 or K41 somewhere that is in this livery). However it was isolated examples until the Crimson and Cream livery was introduced in 1949. I doubt that you would have seen a rake of them.

However I am pretty sure the WR didn't go through removing GWR crests and adding the W prefix to stock widely. It would only have been those coaches due for a repaint at the time that received this hybrid livery.

Hi Matt ( @Karhedron )

May be Dapol has evidence that this is the case and the coaches are indeed accurate. If not, then I suppose you can expect these variants to end up in the WOW bin.

Kind regards

Paddy

Karhedron · February 27, 2020, 11:07:44 AM

Just spotted another issue with the "BR Choc/cream" coaches that confirms they are definitely fictitious, the white roofs. The GWR adopted grey for coach roofs during WW2 (possibly as a blackout measure) and BR always painted coach roofs grey. There was never an overlap with white roofs and BR-style "W" prefix running numbers.

Bob G · February 27, 2020, 11:16:22 AM

Quote from: Karhedron on February 27, 2020, 11:07:44 AM
Just spotted another issue with the "BR Choc/cream" coaches that confirms they are definitely fictitious, the white roofs. The GWR adopted grey for coach roofs during WW2 (possibly as a blackout measure) and BR always painted coach roofs grey. There was never an overlap with white roofs and BR-style "W" prefix running numbers.

I can already feel the tears coming from Joel's wallet.

Paddy · February 27, 2020, 11:34:01 AM

And there was me trying to be kind to Dapol...

Paddy

Bingley Hall · February 27, 2020, 01:57:44 PM

Quote from: Paddy on February 27, 2020, 11:34:01 AM
And there was me trying to be kind to Dapol...

Paddy

And who really cares?
Foobies have been a part of the hobby since its inception. Plenty of US manufacturers continue with the practice, and obviously continue to make money.
No one is forcing anyone to buy these and the majority of us in the hobby play by Rule 1 anyway - so no harm done.