So how much did the N-Gauge Society Collett K41 Full Brake Coach Cost???

[railsquid]

UM is not a particularly helpful analogy as they produce a (deliberately) limited range which is well-regarded. However there is no real secret to why their costs are lower ie one man band, selling direct, with limited details ie less assembly and simpler liveries (ie little or no tampo printing).

Also I think Union Mills is exempt from VAT.

[Doc Pye]

Thanks for the lecture, I'm fully aware of all that (having run a Model Train manufacturing company for the last 5 years!) but on paid for tooling (which is what was being discussed then employment costs are the major fact.

Currency, shipping etc is peanuts compared to production costs.

Well with that attitude I wish your venture the best of luck going forward. I would suggest, in a very friendly way, that you gain more knowledge about the 'peanut' costs you referred to, as they aren't necessarily accurate. But hey, it is your business to do as you like, and for the market to decide if you win or lose, which is still a great thing about capitalism.

You may also want to double check who Mike is before you tell him how to run a business

And yes, I do know that Mike is listed as a Director at Revolution Trains. I have never done any business with them so can't comment further but from what I have read people are happy with what they are doing. And I wish them all the best, as I know how hard it is to run successful businesses.

[njee20]

This is like epic mansplaining! Revolution has produced and shipped literally thousands of units from China, I suspect Mike has a reasonable handle on the numbers, even if he's probably too polite to defend himself as vigorously as is deserved!

[Doc Pye]

This is like epic mansplaining!

Now there is a phrase one doesn't hear every day.

FYI, I wasn't attacking anyone and if you would read - instead of you attacking - perhaps you would get that point.

Like I said, I wish him well, plain and simple.

[exmouthcraig]

revolutioN are winning. They have been for a good while as far as I can tell and continue to do so with their fantastically produced perfect examples of wonderful rolling stock.

And with their steam engine coming as well as diesels produced I suspect GF and Dapol are particularly envious of their succes and their winning streak will continue.

Never met either Ben or Mike other then the times Mr Ando appears on tele BUT I have had communication with both through this forum and they are the nicest blokes I think you could meet, passionate about their business, their customers, the industry we all love and their success and I think that's a rare thing these days especially with how successful their business is.

I'm very pleased they are so successful and have shaken the industry up a considerable amount for the better and Im more then happy to buy their items that suit my era, which isn't nearly enough guys!!

to revolutioN

[njee20]

This is like epic mansplaining!

Now there is a phrase one doesn't hear every day.

FYI, I wasn't attacking anyone and if you would read - instead of you attacking - perhaps you would get that point.

Like I said, I wish him well, plain and simple.

I didn't suggest you were attacking (and I'm not attacking you), but you originally told Mike how his estimate of the costs were wrong (from a position of ignorance I assume, not unreasonable if you've not been around for a few years), then told him he needs to better understand the costs associated with his business, even once you claim to know who Revolution are.

Perhaps it was unintentional, but your well wishes read as very condescending.

[Newportnobby]

[gmod]Please cease the sniping, agree to differ and move on. The thread is fast becoming a battleground[/gmod]

[Leon]

I was pretty sticker shocked when it sold for +£40

It's astounding to me that there were six distinct bidders for this item which sold for 43.50 GBP + shipping charges! For me, it speaks clearly to the hobbyists having a lot more money than me, or the extent to which some people become addicted to our hobby and will pay any price for the object they want/need. I suppose, to be charitable, one can imagine the last two bidders are investors. Prices will go up further, no doubt, but in real terms, the price for this coach will unlikely appreciate further.

Leon

[Ben A]

Hi Doc Pye,

MIke and I will be on the Revolution Stand at the Internaional N Gauge Show in just over  a fortnight's time.

If you're able to visit please come and have a chat. 

Getting production back to the UK would make life a lot easier for us, and be something that would almost certainly be popular with modellers, but in practical terms - for a variety of reasons that I'd be happy to debate with you - we think it's currently a non-starter.

That is not to say it can't ever happen, but aside from the labour costs there are a number of specialist skills that would require significant levels of training and investment to even start approaching the standards we now expect.

Cheers

Ben A.

[LASteve]

MIke and I will be on the Revolution Stand at the Internaional N Gauge Show in just over  a fortnight's time.

Hi Mke and Ben - wy wife and I will be at TINGS after a long trip from Los Angeles, I'll stop by the stand and say hi! This thread has got a little ridiculous in terms of who values what at what price. I posted earlier - the quality of the models is quite astounding, and I budget my income according to what I think i can spend on the hobby. If anyone has income-envy, don't bother fighting about it. I'm in no way a wealthy man, my wife and I decide on priorities, and we save for the luxuries we want.

Which includes admission to TINGS.

We're looking forward to seeing you on Sunday 15th.

[Bealman]

Well said, Steve. Good one, mate 

[exmouthcraig]

Earlier this year I paid £63 for one coach I wanted, had never seen in a shop or online before so got into a bidding war and had to win at all costs, maybe I'm fortunate to be able to spend that much on one or I'm stupid 

Interestingly I bought 2 of the exact same coach this week and won the pair for £36.

Presumably I wasnt bidding against someone with the same win at all costs attitude this time.

We only ever have "discussions" about high prices, I have also won a brand new never out the box 4MT for £46, we never mention the poor people that loose out when we get a bargain like that 

[LASteve]

We only ever have "discussions" about high prices, I have also won a brand new never out the box 4MT for £46, we never mention the poor people that loose out when we get a bargain like that 

I completely agree that we never hear about the "upside" when we find a good deal. I have bid on eBay on some tremendous bargains, even though I am relatively new to this hobby. But, I think I'm fair. I found a 3-car CL 101 DMU last year listed by a charity store in the UK who didn't know what they had. It was listed as a donation, three coaches, not a drivable unit. I emailed the guy listing it and told him he was selling himself short. I won the auction, and it cost me GBP60 more than he was asking, but I felt comfortable with the trade and the Colchester charity made a little more than they might have expected. It was the first set I fitted with DCC sound and I love it.

I bid on a DP1 prototype listed here in the US and won that at a bargain, but I didn't feel the need to upsell the seller - as well as it turned out, as he mailed a quite incredible diatribe to the purchaser of another item - he's on the forum, he can tell the story if he wants to share.

I also bid and won on a CL42, and a 4-CEP set, none of which are available at retail. It's up to us to decide which is a fair price for what we want to add to our collections, not to engage in arbitrary arguments about "well, it cost this new, so how can it cost this much used?"

OK, probably that's enough ramble from me. If I was being rude, I'd tell Mr. Pye what to do next, but I'll be nice.

Thank you for your attention. See any or all of you at TINGS. The flight leaves LAX on the 11th, so I think even with delays, myself and SWMBO will be there on the 15th, fingers crossed and remembering how to drive a rental stick shift sitting on the wrong side of the car and driving on the wrong side of the road on the world's narrowest notwithstanding.

Watch out, M40

[Train Waiting]

Getting production back to the UK would make life a lot easier for us, and be something that would almost certainly be popular with modellers, but in practical terms - for a variety of reasons that I'd be happy to debate with you - we think it's currently a non-starter.

That is not to say it can't ever happen, but aside from the labour costs there are a number of specialist skills that would require significant levels of training and investment to even start approaching the standards we now expect.

Cheers

Ben A.

I think that this is an excellent summary of the situation at present.  I should be absolutely delighted to see more of our models manufactured in the UK.  I make a definite and continuing effort to support UK model manufacturing.

By the early 1980s it looked very likely that the UK motorcycle industry was dead, at least for volume production.  And just look at Triumph now!  A case study with regard to Ben's closing paragraph.

I live in hope, but accept for the present that the very nice carriages on my layout are produced overseas.  And, yes, although these are expensive, I still bought an ex-SECR 'Birdcage' set which is a delight.  The price is what I paid and the value is what I get.  Which is a lot of pleasure watching it trundling round my little layout behind a Union Mills locomotive.

Best wishes.

John

[Bealman]

I was sort of hoping for a birdcage set from the Bealettes for me birthday, but seeing as I didn't even hint at it, I'll have to make do with a dozen DVDs from the Marvel universe. OK with me! 

Regarding the coach in the OP, I'd quite happily pay big $$ for one if it came my way. Lovely model.