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Author Topic: So how much did the N-Gauge Society Collett K41 Full Brake Coach Cost???  (Read 1404 times)

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Offline Doc Pye

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As I have said before, I have come back into the hobby in the last year or so and have been playing catch up on all the latest developments, of which there have been many.

I recently spotted an interesting item on eBay that I thought would be useful for my collection, namely the following:

N Gauge Society Dapol 2P-000-300 Collett K41 Full Brake Coach BR GWR Chocolate

I was pretty sticker shocked when it sold for +£40....see below

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303258309695?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2546137.m43663.l10137

So my question is, how much did these things costs when they were first release by the N-Gauge Society and are any still about for a reasonable price?

As a follow-up query, why has N-Gauge gotten so darn expensive???

Offline RailGooner

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My 2P-000-307 cost £30 (inc. P&P) in 2015. It's insured value is £50.
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Offline jpendle

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As a follow-up query, why has N-Gauge gotten so darn expensive???

Probably when we started getting highly detailed models from Dapol & Farish around 5 years ago.

Even Revolutions Mk5's are about 37.50 pounds, and that's without retail mark ups.

The pound isn't doing well, so as everything is made in China that also has an effect.

Farish seems to be particularly expensive, but Dapol prices have gone up as well.

Regards,

John P
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Offline NGS-PO

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In fairness, with regard to the OP's particular subject, the NGS Collet Brake, this was an exclusive model for the NGS and is no longer available, being completely sold out, has not been included in Dapol's main range (I'm not sure whether the commissioning agreement even allows for that) and so is likely to attract a premium for those who really want one.

The NGS also offered, and still has in stock, Thompson's full brakes; all but one of the produced liveries are in stock @£28.

Best

Scott
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 09:13:57 AM by NGS-PO »
PLEASE NOTE: Unless where obviously posting on behalf of the NGS, all posts and views are my own and not connected/endorsed by the Society.

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Offline NeMo

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As a follow-up query, why has N-Gauge gotten so darn expensive???

It's not just toy trains. My other hobby is tropical fish. For years and years I've not needed to buy any new fish, but this summer decided to have a bit of a sort out and refresh the tank. A school of tetras (little colourful chaps from the Amazon) that would have cost around £8-10 for six are now more like £12-15 for six.

Some of that's inflation, I'm sure, but most of it is down to the weak pound. Politics isn't a popular topic with moderators here, but suffice it to say that against the US Dollar the Pound Sterling is weaker than it has been for a long while, and since international wholesale prices are often done in US dollars, that means the price in Pounds has gone up dramatically.

Of course a weak Pound is great if you're an exporter of things grown and made in the UK -- pork pie manufacturers seem to be in the news a lot recently -- because it makes your prices more attractive to someone paying in US Dollars. But if anyone in the UK needs something that almost by definition needs to be made abroad (tropical fish fit that bill nicely!) then things look much grimmer. It seems unlikely the Pound is going to strengthen anytime soon, especially if PM Johnson wants to keep the Pound weak to encourage exports. Indeed, he may choose to allow the Pound to weaken still further, in which case expect further increases in prices of things imported from China.

You could argue, I suppose, that this might encourage manufacturer of toy train bits in the UK. Certainly, Union Mills prices are starting to look insanely competitive, almost pocket money prices by comparison to Farish and Dapol! But even if Farish or Dapol decide to switch manufacturing back to the UK, that would take years to do, and it would surely take a very long time to pay off any such investment in machinery, logistics, property, and staff training. So except in the most trivially small situations, I'd be highly surprised if either manufacturers chose to do that.

Cheers, NeMo
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Offline LASteve

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Some of that's inflation, I'm sure, but most of it is down to the weak pound. Politics isn't a popular topic with moderators here, but suffice it to say that against the US Dollar the Pound Sterling is weaker than it has been for a long while, and since international wholesale prices are often done in US dollars, that means the price in Pounds has gone up dramatically.


I'm on the upside of this equation, living in the US. I gave myself a "trade embargo" a few months ago to keep my dollars in the bank, or my retirement fund, but recently the exchange rate has got so attractive that I've bought at least six items on eBay or direct from the forum in the last month. Next year it'll all calm down again, but if I can spend almost 1-1 USD - GBP than it's a tough argument not to do so.

I'm not in love with the pork pie prospect, but if import restrictions against black pudding were to be removed, I'd be a VERY happy camper.

Offline Bealman

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Black puddin'??! You are weird.  :sick2:

Anyway, your up-coming visit to TINGS will sort your wallet out, Steve.  ;D

I had every intention of being there until me ankle went pear shaped. Bloody shame, would have loved to have had meet up!  :beers:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline LASteve

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I had every intention of being there until me ankle went pear shaped.

You've got a pear-shaped ankle? That's serious stuff. Just wait until it goes sausage-side-up and then you'll be pleading for a pork pie and some black pudding for (comic) relief.

Mrs Steve also shares your disdain for all things black pudding, but she's a trooper. She wanted a ticket to TINGS also, much to my surprise. I think it's a cunning plan to divert to Birmingham for a balti. She was there 30 years ago and still talks about it.

Offline Bealman

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It sounds like an awesome day out for both of you. Enjoy!!

And by the way, I quite like a bit of black pudding in moderation.  :beers:

Full TINGS report expected!  :thumbsup:

Thread hijack.... sorry!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 09:44:47 AM by Bealman »
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Newportnobby

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I would suggest one of the main developments while Doc Pye was absent from the hobby was the Chinese government insisting wages for their workers should rise by 20% every year for a 5 year period. Whether that was a decent thing to do I'll leave to the individual. However, my opinion is Farish made 'much more use' of this than Dapol resulting in some large disparities when comparing, for example, coach prices.

As to the K41 availability, every now and then someone queries the wisdom of pre ordering or snapping up items when they are issued and this carriage is a prime example of losing out on a limited run. Obviously not applicable in this case as a long absence could be the cause.
Just my thoughts.

Offline LASteve

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Re: So how much did the N-Gauge Society Collett K41 Full Brake Coach Cost???
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2019, 10:33:57 AM »
Hopefully not derailing the thread, but just in the last couple of days I received a Farish, recent model (Chinese) Mk1 Buffet Car in BR Blue/Grey. Frankly, I was stunned by the detail and the quality of the model. This damn thing is six inches long and the quite incredible detailing is beyond description.

So - maybe you get what you pay for. The coach was not cheap, but, hellfire, it's not cheap to look at either.

Offline NeMo

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Re: So how much did the N-Gauge Society Collett K41 Full Brake Coach Cost???
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2019, 11:22:54 AM »
Hopefully not derailing the thread,
I'd say you're re-railing it!

Frankly, I was stunned by the detail and the quality of the model. This damn thing is six inches long and the quite incredible detailing is beyond description.
Oh, that's certainly part of the story. A modern 'blue riband' Mk1 coach is substantially better than the ones Farish was selling ten or so years ago. Those older coaches went for about £12-14 the last time I bought some, which was at least ten years ago.

According to the official UK inflation calculator, that works out at around £16-19. Modern blue riband coaches of the same prototype, albeit to a higher standard, are retailing at around £36 from the box shifters. So they cost twice as much, even allowing for inflation. That means the question is are they twice as good? I'd say they are, but let's remember that many other things we buy not only better across the same time interval but cheaper as well -- computers, phones, and other electronics in particular.

So in short, "stuff" is definitely much more expensive, well beyond what inflation can explain. Partly exchange rates are a factor, and even if the models were identical, they'd cost more. But the models themselves are not the same, but more complex and detailed, which means more labour is needed, and as Chinese labour costs increase (perhaps becoming more liveable and fair) exchange rates really start to bite.

HOWEVER, the big caveat to this is while I'd accept UK outline rolling stock is now as good as anything you'd see in the US, Japan, or Germany from the big manufacturers, the locomotives remain less reliable. We still aren't getting Kato quality at Kato prices -- we're getting Dapol quality at Kato prices. I'm sure Dapol (and Farish) are boxed in a bit here because of the small volume of the UK market, so sort of accept this as the price to be paid for having nicely detailed, authentic UK locos made relatively cheaply. But it's still annoying for anyone used to Kato's reliability.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline Doc Pye

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Re: So how much did the N-Gauge Society Collett K41 Full Brake Coach Cost???
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2019, 03:21:12 PM »
So does anyone have a spare N Gauge Society Dapol 2P-000-300 Collett K41 Full Brake Coach in GWR colors suitable for pre-WW2 they would want to part with that won't cost me a kidney???

 :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Offline PLD

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Re: So how much did the N-Gauge Society Collett K41 Full Brake Coach Cost???
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2019, 04:18:32 PM »
According to the official UK inflation calculator, that works out at around £16-19. Modern blue riband coaches of the same prototype, albeit to a higher standard, are retailing at around £36 from the box shifters. So they cost twice as much, even allowing for inflation. That means the question is are they twice as good? I'd say they are...
That's the selling point for me... If you take an old type coach as a starting point, could you produce an equivalent standard of detail as the Blue Riband version for the cost difference either by dong it yourself pricing up materials and your own labour at Minimum Wage c £8.50/hour or employing a professional.

I bet you the price of a Blue Riband Mk1 you couldn't... ...  :D

Offline Ben A

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Re: So how much did the N-Gauge Society Collett K41 Full Brake Coach Cost???
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2019, 08:55:33 PM »
We still aren't getting Kato quality at Kato prices -- we're getting Dapol quality at Kato prices. I'm sure Dapol (and Farish) are boxed in a bit here because of the small volume of the UK market, so sort of accept this as the price to be paid for having nicely detailed, authentic UK locos made relatively cheaply.

Cheers, NeMo

Nail hit on head.  The low UK volume is the kicker compared to US, German and particularly Japanese markets.

BUT... I have a sense that model railways is enjoying a renaissance.  We have shows that don't just poke fun at it, and if you go into any branch of WHSmith's you'll see more railway magazines than ever before.

Add to this that Kato are at TINGS to launch their new British range, starting with a Class 800 in N and a couple of 009 steam locos, and you start to see real possibilities.

It is my view that while there is always going to be some grumbling about price it is far better to have high quality models we can be proud of, than have to suffer the jibes of N gauge models being like "cake decorations."

I agree that chassis qualities is the next big challenge.

Cheers

Ben A.



 

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