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Author Topic: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH  (Read 3736 times)

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Online njee20

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2019, 10:47:51 AM »
Needed some replacement bogie pins, this Etched Pixels bloke ones were good value, so hopefully another 20p for the coffers!

Offline JimSan

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2019, 10:57:29 AM »
What we actually need is cheap home 3D printers that can do Shapeways quality pre-coloured 8)

Ever since reading this thread last night, have been taking a look into affordable home 3d printers, so far the Creality Ender 3 is looking like a good contender, while yes it would require some modifications to improve things from it's stock setup (which from what I've read, aren't expensive either) and needs a fine tuned profile, some people have been getting figurine level of detail which I would consider acceptable for N gauge.

Example images

Don't think it can come pre-coloured unless you want to switch the PLA rolls out between parts heh, but for less than £200 it looks interesting and thinking of getting one at some point.

Offline Snowwolflair

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2019, 11:38:20 AM »
The ANYCUBIC Photon 3D Printer is the best bet so far printing in resin with a 115mm by 65mm build plate and works on stereoscopic lithography  (UV resin cure).  If the build plate was 50% bigger you could do Mk3 coaches and I believe that's in the plans.  As it is locos etc. can be done flat and Mk3 coaches at an angle.

The software is good and it prints from a USB stick so no dedicated computer required.

In general PLA and other thermoplastic extrusion printers are not good enough for N gauge, you just cannot get it to make fine enough detail.  they are useful for some OO and are taking off big time in O.

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2019, 07:39:11 PM »
WTO rules wouldn't apply. That's one of the myths. Adhoc rules would apply until our WTO submissions were approved, about 4 laws amended and 600 odd standing orders changed. The adhoc rules might be WTO rules but its entirely up to the governments involved to make up a number - some kind of sanity might even apply.

VAT is a big problem though because you'll have to hope Shapeways has the set up in place to let you claim the VAT back/avoid paying it (as a non EU customer), then pay it to parcelfarce or similar (plus £20 for the privilege of a tiny piece of paper and some bits moving in a computer database).

It's an even bigger problem outgoing for a business as you will need to be registered under the EU VAT scheme to sell into the EU and must charge the EU citizen the correct VAT blah bah... and there is no floor as far as I know for registering. In addition you can't register for the scheme unless you are VAT registered, which for a small business is akin to sticking your fingers into beehives for fun.  For business incoming you need an EORI and all the crap that goes with it.

(I won't be supplying EU citizens once we leave unless that is avoiding in whatever exit scheme we end up in)

If you aren't a business - you don't have to worry about the business parts. That usually also includes cases where you charge people enough to defray costs which is a nice change from the general madness the taxman inflicts on us all.

Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2019, 07:47:16 PM »
The ANYCUBIC Photon 3D Printer is the best bet so far printing in resin with a 115mm by 65mm build plate and works on stereoscopic lithography  (UV resin cure).  If the build plate was 50% bigger you could do Mk3 coaches and I believe that's in the plans.  As it is locos etc. can be done flat and Mk3 coaches at an angle.

That sounded really interesting until I checked the price of materials. It's still amazing considering what such a device cost even five years ago.

I don't think printing angled is a problem. With Shapeways I printed a pile of stuff together with short vehicles and wagons and the coaches angled across the middle in order to avoid similar limits at the time when printing some ETR500 coach shells. (The power cars are Del Prado and there was a motorising kit)

Damn.. I'm so tempted but right now I have too many other things to do and it still feels like the days of the 386 PC where if you bought one it was obsolete by the time you unpacked it 8)


 Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Snowwolflair

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2019, 08:33:41 PM »
Quote
Damn.. I'm so tempted but right now I have too many other things to do and it still feels like the days of the 386 PC where if you bought one it was obsolete by the time you unpacked it 8)

and now computers are beyond what we need. I estimate 3D printers have 4 years to reach the same state of development.

Online njee20

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2019, 10:36:14 PM »
How can you say that? Given stuff is still being developed that utilities the very best hardware available. Diminishing returns, I accept, but you cannot say that computers are beyond what  “we” need.

It seems that there is more innovation coming from home printing, which again reinforces that’s where the market’s Headed. There’s an interesting thread on RMWeb I suspect you’ve seen with examples of printing in N/2FS. The results look excellent, and generally surpass Shapeways offerings. If I could do CAD I’d get a printer straight away!

Offline Snowwolflair

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2019, 10:46:39 PM »
How can you say that? Given stuff is still being developed that utilities the very best hardware available. Diminishing returns, I accept, but you cannot say that computers are beyond what  “we” need.

It seems that there is more innovation coming from home printing, which again reinforces that’s where the market’s Headed. There’s an interesting thread on RMWeb I suspect you’ve seen with examples of printing in N/2FS. The results look excellent, and generally surpass Shapeways offerings. If I could do CAD I’d get a printer straight away!

Well i'm using a 4 screen 40 core Xeon computer with 128GB of Ram and 4TB of raid SSD, and your suggesting I need more  :D
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 10:49:20 PM by Snowwolflair »

Online njee20

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2019, 08:05:59 AM »
No I’m not, please show me where I said that. I’m suggesting you can’t possibly say “we” cannot utilise available performance, you don’t speak for the whole of humanity, hard as that may be to believe! You may not, I may not, but that’s not the same. The Xeon 20 core processors have been around for a couple of years now anyway, and only 128GB RAM, hardly cutting edge, dual CPU motherboards have been supporting 256GB for years ;)

Anyway, that’s totally OT. It would be great if home printers got to the stage that they could print a house in 20 minutes with layers 0.000001mm thick and most people still used them for printing some n gauge models (to continue the tortured PC analogy). It’s those who do utilise the bleeding edge that drive the performance forward and the cost down, and the 99.99% of people who do little more than open Chrome or Word benefit from this.

Still doesn’t get me any good at CAD though :hmmm:

As an aside my Shapeways order progressed to printing very quickly, interested to see how long it is to despatch, does suggest as above they’re hardly inundated.

Offline Bob G

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2019, 09:45:26 AM »
I was told my order of 17 Jan was due around 4 Feb. It arrived 22 Jan.
As you say, are  they a little short of work?
I dont usually raise my consultancy fees when I'm short of work, but who knows?
Perhaps they have a different business model?

Bob

Online njee20

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2019, 10:00:05 AM »
It would be really interesting to delve into their business model a bit, I wonder what proportion of people are printing their own designs, or buying others, average order sizes etc. There are some crazy expensive things on there. The margins must be big, although I know you can't tell what the designers have added.

It doesn't feel they've innovated at all at a time when the industry has really moved on.

Then again there's no pretender to the throne, so I guess for those who don't have the ability to print their own you have little choice. That said I don't think I've bought anything overly exciting, just various wagons and bits that I'd just do without if the prices escalated as they seem to be about to.

Offline emjaybee

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2019, 10:12:36 AM »
Since this news came about I've placed my one and only Shapeways order. Two 'scratch aid' wagons, a six wheel LMS milk wagon and a pre-war Sentinel shunter. I don't NEED any of these, but they're all things I've been looking at over the last couple of years out of curiosity. News of the impending price rise has prompted the purchase.

As mentioned previously, some of the charges for prints is staggering. There's a couple of interesting wagons, but at over £80 you've got to be seriously committed to the cause.

I've not dabbled in 3D printing and am unlikely to do so, but having looked at some of the machines suggested by other posters I can understand why the 'keener' modeller would invest in one.

Maybe as people on this forum design wagons/locos etc. they may make them available to other forum members (for appropriate remuneration) who don't have CAD and 3D capabilities.

It is certainly an interesting field, an Etched Pixels CCT is my first 3D experience, and one that can only help the hobby.
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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2019, 10:26:54 AM »
Like emjaybee I've just used Shapeways for the first time and ordered a diesel brake tender body so as to beat the increase.

Offline Doc Pye

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2019, 04:28:51 PM »
Okay, apologies if this sounds rude but Alan you clearly don't know what you are talking about. I won't get into the leave/remain debate as it is pointless. However, your comment about the UK not being part of the WTO and this being some type of 'myth' is just plain wrong.

FYI, the United Kingdom has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995 and a member of GATT since 1 January 1948. So much of your scaremongering arguments fall flat.

Of course if you want to believe the sky will fall then so be it.

Again, not trying to start any fight on things but people really have to start getting a better grip on facts and reality.

As for Shapeways, they have been overpriced for ages, and their quality has been hit and miss, with more miss of late. It was a great idea that just hasn't panned out with customers and designers.

I don't profess to be an expert at all on 3D printing and such (I do profess to be an expert on econ matters, as I do that as part of my living) but I can see printers and consumables all coming down. Much like the intro of VCR tech prices are dropping and the equipment is getting better. So one day soon I think many in the hobby will have their own 3D printers and make their own parts. :)

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: SHAPEWAYS PRICE HIKE ON THE 30TH
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2019, 06:12:41 PM »
While we are a member we trade under the consolidated EU good schedule. When we leave we have to trade under our own. In particular the EU has quotas on all sorts of stuff. When the UK leaves the EU the quota has to be split. Various third parties object to how the UK and EU are splitting the quota.

We have to produced what is called a draft schedule. That has to be approved by the WTO and there are already objections to our filing. In the non hard brexit case that's kind of 'meh, usual' and we have discussions and it gets sorted out by the usual deals, threats, arm twisting and plain old ignoring the rules and daring people to pick a fight.

Until the DG of the WTO signs it off it's just a piece of paper.

In the sane case this doesn't matter. By the time everything unwinds it's signed and a load of free trade deals will hopefully have been signed anyway.

Agreed on Shapeways.

Agree likewise on the 3D printers. It really does remind me of the points in computing where the prices crashed and the tech got way better: More so the shift from the early machines to the big 8bit ones. Where we suddenely went from £900 computers or £600 kits that needed a month to assemble to £200 computers in Smiths.

The consumable prices are also getting a lot better. You can already get 'clone' resins and the like just like for ink jet ripoff printers.

Alan
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