Quote from: Chris Morris on July 06, 2021, 07:35:59 AM
I think this batch production era we are living in isn't all bad. Yes it is inconvenient but what are the good points?

1. We get the "thrill of the chase" when we find what we are after. I love it!
2. We all get to be collectors waiting impatiently for the next one in the series to come out. As a committed train runner I never used to understand collectors but now I do (a bit).
3. It does help to spread the cost of building up a rake of coaches.
4. It forces us to think about what we really want and what other options might work. For instance I've been checking what stock was in general use in 1963 and as a result I now have more pre nationalisation stock than I used to. There was still quite a bit around even in 1963.
5. We can always try Electra Rail printed sides for any missing coaches we really must have. This forces us to do a bit of actual modelling which I see as a good thing. Nowhere near as good as a current Farish Mk1 but not too bad in a long rake.

So overall I would say batch production makes life more interesting. As it reduces manufacturers overall costs and therefore prices it is a good thing. Its always best to see the good rather than the bad.  I started this topic  to warn folk that, if they were thinking of buying any Farish coaches, it might be better to do it sooner rather than later due to the price rises appearing on new batches.

I'm not a fan of batch production but it is now a fact of life. I agree with the points raised, especially number 5.

Personally I don't have an issue with the prices asked for locomotives and some like the new Farish 8F should have even been higher as they are engineering masterpieces. My issue is the rolling stock prices, and the cost of building a train, yes I know they now have more underframe detail and that costs more, but it's not really needed, who looks under their wagons and coaches,

I also understand that for some price is not an issue and for them the poor can just shut up and go away and they will carry on paying the asking price because they can, and the sellers will carry on thinking, good they all sold so we have not reached the natural price limit yet.

Those lucky enough to be financially stable, like those on final salary pensions are dieing off, quite literally, only to be replaced by more financially limited customers, so the future of this hobby does not look bright, which is a shame as the trend for building smaller and smaller houses should have resulted in a boom for n-gauge modelling.

Still back to now, it's an expensive hobby, if you can't afford it, go and play with something less expensive and stop bothering the wealthy elite

NGM

Quote from: Bigmac on July 06, 2021, 08:37:58 AM

Quote from: Chris Morris on July 06, 2021, 07:35:59 AM
I think this batch production era we are living in isn't all bad. Yes it is inconvenient but what are the good points?

1. We get the "thrill of the chase" when we find what we are after. I love it!
2. We all get to be collectors waiting impatiently for the next one in the series to come out. As a committed train runner I never used to understand collectors but now I do (a bit).
3. It does help to spread the cost of building up a rake of coaches.
4. It forces us to think about what we really want and what other options might work. For instance I've been checking what stock was in general use in 1963 and as a result I now have more pre nationalisation stock than I used to. There was still quite a bit around even in 1963.
5. We can always try Electra Rail printed sides for any missing coaches we really must have. This forces us to do a bit of actual modelling which I see as a good thing. Nowhere near as good as a current Farish Mk1 but not too bad in a long rake.

So overall I would say batch production makes life more interesting. As it reduces manufacturers overall costs and therefore prices it is a good thing. Its always best to see the good rather than the bad.  I started this topic  to warn folk that, if they were thinking of buying any Farish coaches, it might be better to do it sooner rather than later due to the price rises appearing on new batches.

"do a bit of actual modelling "

now theres an idea...

I became peeved at the Year on Year price increases from Farish. I also wanted to create a rake for a late 40s/early 50s Royal Scot train...for starters. So, I decided to try my hand at making my own carriages. I started with some catering carriages not available RTR.

I would urge others who want to create a realistic rake to consider having a go at making their own. RM web has a section on making carriages in N gauge with many photos (some being mine) and an abundance of advice.

Of course I fully understand it won't be for everyone. However, looking at a rake of carriages you have made yourself is very gratifying. Two sources of kits and parts are Worsley Works and Etched Pixels.

I'm sure that before long somebody will start producing carriages/parts in 3D...if they haven't already.

Quote from: belstone on July 05, 2021, 10:22:49 PM
[...] For much of the last couple of years Farish 16 ton mineral wagons have been as rare as unicorns.  BR built a quarter of a million of them. Is the demand for models really so limited that Farish don't dare make more than a tiny number every two or three years?

Hello Richard

I have three (I think) of these, 'sixteen-tonners' not unicorns (!), in the loft.  Bought before I had refined my rolling stock requirements for the Table-Top Railway and now completely surplus to requirements.  Please let me know if you would like to rehome them.

Best wishes.

John

@belstone

There are some amazing new developments in 3D printing coming, for instance full colour prints in high quality that could rival RTR. Of course, they are incredibly expensive now but in ten years time you might be able to go online, select a rake of Mk2 coaches in Inter-City livery and have them fabricated and delivered.

I agree with what's been said about batch sizes - why the SO/SK/TSO are produced at the same rate as the restaurant/buffer cars I'll never understand. It wouldn't be so bad if the gap between re-issues was shorter.

Quote from: PLD on July 06, 2021, 07:51:02 AM
In the old days there was a BSK, a CK and a Buffet, no BCK, RU, SO or FO ever...

Just a minor correction. When based at Poole, Farish produced the following Mk1:
BG
GUV
BCK
SK
RMB
POS

(If you wanted a BSK, CK you needed to buy from Minitrix. TPM replacement window inserts allowed most types to be modelled. There were also etched sides from Ultima Models).

When Bachmann took over they removed some of the detail from the tooling allowing them to produce BSK, RU, SO, CK and FK - although these were missing interiors and you couldn't get some livery/model combinations. They didn't do a Blue/Grey CK for example.

When the Blue-Riband models came out, Farish tooled extra roof and interiors, allowing best use of the main body shells allowing a wide range or types to be made:
SK, SO, FK, FO, BCK, BSK, CK, RMB, RU, RFO, SLF, SLSTP, GUV, BG, CCT,  POS, HB & five types of Pullman.

There are a number of different Mk1 diagrams that haven't been produced (e.g. FO with three doors), but the key missing ones are a POT, BSO, and the refurbished buffet cars (and the BFK).


Steven B

I'm not sure model railways is an expensive hobby compared to other hobbies. Look at the price of ebikes. Bargain basement is about £2k and top of the range is now well over £10k - and you still have to pedal! You can easily pay over £500 just for a good fishing rod, then there is all the other equipment.  The price per night at campsites is starting to get silly and glamming is ridiculous. Even painting pictures will work out expensive when you think of all the equipment you need and then travelling to the right spot to paint.

Life is expensive, enjoying life more so.

[mod]This thread is remaining open due to member interest. If it was closed, it would no doubt spring up again in the future, so all discussion may as well remain here.[/mod]

Can we kill the idea that detail adds massively to the price - it adds something but the bulk of the cost is the same whether you have a low detailed model or highly detailed model (for new tooling). You can design a highly detailed model using the same amount or marginally more tooling than a low detailed model. Removing detail from rolling stock isn't going to make much difference to the final price.

Again another myth, Literally no company is sat there thinking if I under supply then I will appeal to collectors. Under supply is mostly about not wanting to hold stock (otherwise prices increase to cover that stock holding), underestimating demand or inflexibility of production schedules.

Batch sizes - can definitely be varied, we do that all the time.
Batch re-runs - part of the problem is judging when to re-run things (we're about to re-run a couple of models 4-5 years after the first run). When we've asked for interest in second runs of something that sold well in the first run there was nowhere near enough interest to justify a rerun. So it isn't straight forward and ultimately comes back to not wanting/being able to hold stock.

I do wonder if the heat and light generated in some of these posts is really worth it. Costs are going up for all sorts of economic reasons as well as greater detail and accuracy, so if you are really peeved then why not buy secondhand? I would argue that many of the things people are talking about wanting are out there for sale on eBay, in shops (when open of course) and on the forum. Regarding coaches, I've had a few on the Emporium for a few weeks now and have only sold one, so demand can't be that high. I'm selling mainly common Mk1 coaches with only a couple of SR catering cars that are a bit less popular. They are all being sold at under half RRP so why aren't all the people complaining here about lack of choice not snapping them up? Bizarre..... They will end up on eBay soon and hopefully sell there to those who don't frequent this forum.

Dave

Quote from: Southerngooner on July 06, 2021, 01:36:00 PM
<snip>
I do wonder if the heat and light generated in some of these posts is really worth it.
</snip>

Well, it allows people to let off steam, and there are always those to whom the issues are new. But it's been useful for me: just received a nicely-refreshed pre-owned Farish 101 from Dr Al of this parish, and Adrian's earlier post reminded me to get on & order some Electra vinyls to perk it up a bit more!

Richard

Quote from: Southerngooner on July 06, 2021, 01:36:00 PM
Costs are going up for all sorts of economic reasons as well as greater detail and accuracy, so if you are really peeved then why not buy secondhand? I would argue that many of the things people are talking about wanting are out there for sale on eBay, in shops (when open of course) and on the forum.

Second hand prices have risen just as much as buying new. Even Poole era models appear to be going on the likes of eBay and Hattons for prices twice that they were originally available for.

Poole era Mk2s appear to sell for around £15, with early Chinese versions adding another £10 to that price. As for current Blue-Riband standard models, a single Mk2a TSO recently sold for £88!

If folk are willing to pay that much for a second hand model then:
a. Is it any wonder Farish are pushing coach prices towards £50 and
b. Why aren't they cashing in by producing more TSO in their first runs?

Steven B.

PS. Southerngooner - your coaches on the N'porium are very reasonably priced!

Thanks for the comment re my prices Stephen! What I was trying to highlight in my earlier post was despite my coaches being inexpensive compared to new, no-one wants to buy them despite people claiming shortages of the same stock.....

A particular interest of mine has been picking up green Farish 4-CEPs, of which I now have five. These have all been bought for under £150, three of them in the last year. I may just be very lucky but people bemoan their rarity and some go for almost twice my highest price paid. This makes me wonder if there really is a shortage of stuff or do some people not look very hard? Yes, there are expensive things on eBay and in shops but there are bargains too.....

Dave

Dave

Quote from: Southerngooner on July 06, 2021, 01:36:00 PM
why not buy secondhand?

Out of idle curiosity, is there anyone that has never and does never buy secondhand? I'd imagine we all have bough S/h before (it seems totally vital), but it'd be interesting to know if there's a faction that only buy new....

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Southerngooner on July 06, 2021, 04:35:51 PM

A particular interest of mine has been picking up green Farish 4-CEPs, of which I now have five. These have all been bought for under £150, three of them in the last year. I may just be very lucky but people bemoan their rarity and some go for almost twice my highest price paid. This makes me wonder if there really is a shortage of stuff or do some people not look very hard? Yes, there are expensive things on eBay and in shops but there are bargains too.....

Dave

Dave

I'll understand if you're reluctant to reveal your sources, but I'd love to know where you've picked up Green 4-CEPs for less than £150 recently.  I've had one for many years but am keen for a second (with SYP).  Ebay prices are consistently north of £200, other auction prices can be even higher and I keep a close, if so far fruitless, eye on the 2nd hand section of my local model shop.  Mind you, I did pick up a mint BachFar Bob / WC there a few weeks ago for just £60 that runs like a dream, so I'm not totally unlucky.

Mark