Farish prices. Sorry but here we go again

Bealman · July 03, 2021, 08:39:19 PM

This is probably a bit of a simplistic comment on my behalf (a reflection of my mentality), but if I want a model badly enough, I'll pay for it.

The fact that it was expensive makes me appreciate it more, while at the same time look after it more.

Calnefoxile · July 05, 2021, 10:26:50 AM

I've read all the comments on this thread and there are some interesting points being made, but I think the best one is this one

Quote from: willike1958 on July 03, 2021, 08:09:17 PM
My issue is less with price and more with the short production runs that mean I feel I have to buy something as soon as it is released onto the market for fear of having to wait years for the next batch to be produced, if at all.

This is my thought as well, however the price also has to be considered, let's take the MK2's as an example, if I look in my stock boxes I have approx 20 Farish MK2's, picked up over many years, not all new admittedly but picked up for reasonable prices in the £10 -£15 mark, now if I was to replace those MK2's, which I'd love to do, it's going to cost me in the region of £1000 and I would have to do them in pretty much one go due to the Batch/Short production run.

I could try and replace only half as many and sell off 20 to replace with 10, but that cuts the number of rakes I can supply to our Club Layout from 2 or 3 to 1.

Now if Bachmann were to produce MK2's over 2 or 3 years then I could probably replace most if not all of them over time at 1 or 2 a month, the other problem with Batch Production for the Consumer is that 2nd Hand prices for stuff goes through the roof as well, and some people buying more than they need and then flogging off the extras at inflated prices to make a quick buck or 2, those people do annoy me.

Oh and trying to compare Bachmann with Revolution is a bit silly as the Businesses are run completely different.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers

Neal.

Chris Morris · July 05, 2021, 11:50:33 AM

It was nice when items stayed in stock for years but that was a different world. Holding stock is not good for business. It has to be stored somewhere and storage space costs money. Also boxes can get damaged while in storage which reduces the value of the items. More importantly holding stock means having cash tied up doing nothing. Far better from a business point of view to have almost no stock as this means you have more cash for investment in new product. The principal of small batches of production followed by a fallow period for each model is almost certainly with is for ever. It's not convenient for us modellers but it does mean there is more cash to invest in new projects.

We have to accept where we are and if you see something you want you need to buy it because it may not be there next month. This is not always possible of course and it's worth having a "war chest" saved up ready for when the next must have comes along.

It seems to me that Farish coache prices have gone up at a higher rate than their diesel loco prices. I guess that in manufacturing terms a diesel loco is not much more than a coach with a motor and a few other electronic bits so maybe their coaches weren't making much of a margin compared to their locos.

I just picked up a couple of mk1s from TMC at what is now a bargain price of £32.21!

Markthetog · July 05, 2021, 03:41:40 PM

TL;DR the newer Farish models are exquisite

I've always been sceptical about the small production runs and felt that it was mainly aimed at keeping demand high with the side benefit of lower stock management & storage costs. Having just progressed to my second layout which is much larger than the first I've sighed over the impending costs of stock - I'll need 18 more coaches and have space for another 10 locos.

However I have just taken delivery of one of the latest batch of BR Late crest N Class locos. I paid a little extra for the weathered version bringing the total to £145 plus postage.

Opening the box and gently removing it for inspection I feel it was worth every single penny. Superb detailing, no unnaturally shiny bits and it even has a speaker fitted if I ever go DCC. Beautiful.

I can happily wait and accumulate my stock gradually if it means the models I receive are this detailed. Most of my coaches are older models bought second hand and the difference between them and my newer versions are noticeable enough for me to accept the prices. It's the lack of availability that will cause me issues but at the end of the day what can we do besides accept the status quo?

Just my 2p.

willike1958 · July 05, 2021, 04:59:21 PM

QuoteIt was nice when items stayed in stock for years but that was a different world.

Indeed it was, and your are right, we won't be going back there any time soon. However, there could be more regular production runs and some transparency and commitment over their timing. And as much as I appreciate the incredible increase in quality that present day Farish models represent, I feel that Bachmann take their UK customers very much for granted. I also think that Bachmann could be a little more innovative when it comes to dealing with the implications of increased labour costs in China. What I mean by that is some of the more intricate Farish wagon details could be provided in the "bag of bits" to cap production costs. I'm thinking here specifically of the Presflos and Sealions that apparently require quite some hands-on attention during production. To be clear, these comments are meant to be constructive and I have nothing but praise for the quality of the products and also the speed in which the Farish people in the UK react to my requests for spares. But as THE main player in the market, there is a tendency for Bachmann to sit comfortably on their incumbent's advantage...

PLD · July 05, 2021, 08:19:27 PM

Regarding batch production; if it was that one batch would be produced and that was it, I could understand the complaints. But at least in the case of Farish & Dapol we do get regular re-runs (bizarrely accompanied by complaints that "they're 'milking' us with re-runs and not doing anything new") with the added benefit that when they do re-run they usually have a different running number helping those modellers who want a varied fleet but don't have the confidence to re-number for themselves...

It also means we do get more variations on a type - In Poole days Farish did 3 variations of a Mk1 coach - Brake 3rd, Corridor Composite, Buffet. We have had at least a dozen variations of the Blue Riband Mk1s enabling a representative rake to be assembled...

Chris Morris · July 05, 2021, 08:57:33 PM

I'm rich! Well I would be if I sold this lot.

belstone · July 05, 2021, 10:22:49 PM

Quote from: PLD on July 05, 2021, 08:19:27 PM

It also means we do get more variations on a type - In Poole days Farish did 3 variations of a Mk1 coach - Brake 3rd, Corridor Composite, Buffet. We have had at least a dozen variations of the Blue Riband Mk1s enabling a representative rake to be assembled...

Except that it doesn't, because everything is made in small batches. So you get a thousand Mk1 RFOs and a thousand SKs. Which isn't much help if you are trying to put together a ten coach train and all that anyone has for sale is RFOs because the SKs (which on the real railway outnumbered RFOs about a thousand to one) sold out months ago. This is not just a theoretical problem: a few months ago I was trying to assemble a Blue Riband Mk1 formation for Stobs to replace my motley collection of Poole stock, and I had to use a BG because no-one anywhere had any maroon brake ends. No BSKs, no BCKs. I just had a look round online and the situation hasn't changed. Plenty of RUs, FOs and sleepers though.

I understand the economic logic behind small batch runs and their appeal to the collector market, which is probably much bigger than that represented by people like me and Chris, but for operators trying to run scale length trains small batches are a thorough nuisance. I end up buying stuff that I don't need yet, just because I know that when I need it in future I won't be able to get it. Arguably there are some basic items of stock which ought to be pretty much a permanent fixture in the range. For much of the last couple of years Farish 16 ton mineral wagons have been as rare as unicorns. BR built a quarter of a million of them. Is the demand for models really so limited that Farish don't dare make more than a tiny number every two or three years?

Richard

njee20 · July 05, 2021, 11:24:00 PM

They're not dropping batches every few months, so of course the situation hasn't changed. The point is fair - there have been a huge number of variations of coach to create full formations with different running numbers.

You can't walk into a shop and buy them all in one go, no, it becomes piecemeal as they release them, but the point is still valid.

The ratios is stupid though - I struggle to believe they genuinely are so inflexible they make identical numbers regardless of the models. Even if that were the case surely you'd make double the number of SOs to anything else.

GlenEglise · July 05, 2021, 11:33:49 PM

Can we just kill this thread? It appears from time to time and achieves nothing. What happens in the marketplace happens. If people do not like it they have an option under their direct control.

No need to keep going over the same old arguments.

Chris Morris · July 06, 2021, 07:19:51 AM

Quote from: GlenEglise on July 05, 2021, 11:33:49 PM
Can we just kill this thread? It appears from time to time and achieves nothing. What happens in the marketplace happens. If people do not like it they have an option under their direct control.

No need to keep going over the same old arguments.

Nobody is forcing you to read it.

Chris Morris · July 06, 2021, 07:35:59 AM

I think this batch production era we are living in isn't all bad. Yes it is inconvenient but what are the good points?

1. We get the "thrill of the chase" when we find what we are after. I love it!
2. We all get to be collectors waiting impatiently for the next one in the series to come out. As a committed train runner I never used to understand collectors but now I do (a bit).
3. It does help to spread the cost of building up a rake of coaches.
4. It forces us to think about what we really want and what other options might work. For instance I've been checking what stock was in general use in 1963 and as a result I now have more pre nationalisation stock than I used to. There was still quite a bit around even in 1963.
5. We can always try Electra Rail printed sides for any missing coaches we really must have. This forces us to do a bit of actual modelling which I see as a good thing. Nowhere near as good as a current Farish Mk1 but not too bad in a long rake.

So overall I would say batch production makes life more interesting. As it reduces manufacturers overall costs and therefore prices it is a good thing. Its always best to see the good rather than the bad. I started this topic to warn folk that, if they were thinking of buying any Farish coaches, it might be better to do it sooner rather than later due to the price rises appearing on new batches.

PLD · July 06, 2021, 07:51:02 AM

Quote from: belstone on July 05, 2021, 10:22:49 PMI had to use a BG because no-one anywhere had any maroon brake ends. No BSKs, no BCKs. I just had a look round online and the situation hasn't changed. Plenty of RUs, FOs and sleepers though.

But the counter-point is that at least we know that all those variations will eventually re-appear at some point... In the old days there was a BSK, a CK and a Buffet, no BCK, RU, SO or FO ever... and yes 80% of shops could sell you a CK 80%of the time but if you wanted more than one with different numbers - tough - you were going to have to renumber all but one yourself...

NScaleNotes · July 06, 2021, 08:12:28 AM

This has been an interesting discussion because I'm surprised no one has noticed this as part of a wider trend. In the US/Europe we have entered a period of price inflation of everything, not just models.
Yes there will be outliers that will have got cheaper but the general trend of many necessities and luxury items is up!

Bigmac · July 06, 2021, 08:37:58 AM

Quote from: Chris Morris on July 06, 2021, 07:35:59 AM
I think this batch production era we are living in isn't all bad. Yes it is inconvenient but what are the good points?

1. We get the "thrill of the chase" when we find what we are after. I love it!
2. We all get to be collectors waiting impatiently for the next one in the series to come out. As a committed train runner I never used to understand collectors but now I do (a bit).
3. It does help to spread the cost of building up a rake of coaches.
4. It forces us to think about what we really want and what other options might work. For instance I've been checking what stock was in general use in 1963 and as a result I now have more pre nationalisation stock than I used to. There was still quite a bit around even in 1963.
5. We can always try Electra Rail printed sides for any missing coaches we really must have. This forces us to do a bit of actual modelling which I see as a good thing. Nowhere near as good as a current Farish Mk1 but not too bad in a long rake.

So overall I would say batch production makes life more interesting. As it reduces manufacturers overall costs and therefore prices it is a good thing. Its always best to see the good rather than the bad. I started this topic to warn folk that, if they were thinking of buying any Farish coaches, it might be better to do it sooner rather than later due to the price rises appearing on new batches.

"do a bit of actual modelling "

now theres an idea...