Well, I asked.

That has to be one of the most comprehensive set of answers I've ever come across, thanks everybody.

My only experience of sound has been, like many others, at exhibitions. I concur that if there's a whole depot of diesels at idle it rapidly becomes one of the most annoying sounds on the planet. I'm intrigued to the point of considering the expenditure, which is why I consulted the oracle (forum).

I think for the time being I'll get the 8F delivered and run in. In the meantime I'll scour the interweb and see what videos are floating about.

If I DO decide to have a toe-dip, who/what is the 'Rolls-Royce' system? If I'm going to splash, I'd rather get the best than be naffed off with a budget version that's a bit half-arsed.

Thanks again for the comprehensive breakdown.

You've got two main suppliers of decoders - Zimo and ESU, and then you've got myriad providers of the actual sound files. Like anything most people will gravitate towards one, but I'd say anyone who says there is a "best" is wrong; much like controllers etc. I like YouChoos projects, others like Paul Chetter, or Legomanbiffo. A lot will depend on the loco you're trying to convert and which project is available.

One thing I would say is that you're talking more like £115-£130 for the decoder/speaker, even before you get into fitting, so your £80-£100 fitted is likely somewhat underbaked. The number of easy conversions is growing, but there are still only a handful of UK outline models which are truly 'plug and play', essentially those offered with factory sound; Castle, 108, 40, 50, 68, Pendolino etc. I'm a big fan of Zimo's MX660 decoder, which is flat and thin, and has lighting outputs at 3v, so no resistors are required on the lights.

@njee20 Thanks for that.

Do I understand correctly that you choose your decoder and then the sound file is loaded onto the decoder?

I note the price comment. I'm unlikely to be tempted to do many locos, more likely just the one, so as I say I'd rather get the Rolls Royce version and appreciate it.

In case there's any doubt, it'll be steam, most probably the up and coming 8F.

One can't help wondering why everything sound related in the smaller scales is so expensive and has to be DCC. These are videos of some of my G scale locos all running on DC power and with £50 sound units fitted.







These sound units aren't miniaturised so they wouldn't fit into an N scale loco. They are also a generic sound but the steam one is good enough for me as I sit in the sun watching the trains go round.

@Chris Morris I have one of the early MLS diesel sound cards in a DCC fitted Playmobil diesel. The engine simulation works well but the horn is terrible on the early units, sounds more like a computer beep!   They have improved it since then 

Think you've answered your own question, Chris. They're not miniaturised, and they're generic. Check out Hornby TTS decoders, which are £35, and some sound pretty good. Most are difficult to get into N gauge models though.

Mike - sort of. Generally each sound files will use a specific decoder type, so Legomanbiffo uses ESU, YouChoos and Paul Chetter use Zimo etc. Most people will choose the recording they want, and that'll dictate the brand of decoder. Obviously if you have a particular constraint (space etc) that may force your choice of decoder brand. IIRC ESU no longer do 6-pin direct fit decoders, they're all next-18 with a wiring harness for 6-pin, so that can be a limitation.

I've sound fitted 10 out of my 35 (and growing) collection.

I love it. I dare say I'd not be in the hobby if it weren't for DCC and sound!

There's simply no way I'd run DC.

It's imperative you use the best speaker and sound file, it makes so much difference. I've tested 15 or so speakers and Zimo make the best, far more bass than you'd expect from such small devices.

How can you not like my CL37? 😁


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JIaMzOfVJOE

Loved the video but that mailbag net at 25 seconds is a little overscale don't you think?

Quote from: Chris Morris on September 05, 2020, 12:22:43 PM

Quote from: Ted on September 05, 2020, 07:30:20 PM
I've sound fitted 10 out of my 35 (and growing) collection.

I love it. I dare say I'd not be in the hobby if it weren't for DCC and sound!

There's simply no way I'd run DC.

It's imperative you use the best speaker and sound file, it makes so much difference. I've tested 15 or so speakers and Zimo make the best, far more bass than you'd expect from such small devices.

How can you not like my CL37? 😁


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JIaMzOfVJOE

Each to their own. Its a broad hobby and its great that there are so many different ways to enjoy it. I can tell that the 37 is creating sound that is very accurate for a class 37 but it remains unconvincing to me because, despite being probably as good as you can get in N gauge, the sound is still too thin. When I ran my layout with a Bluetooth speaker occasionally providing the sound at Swindon Steam Museum a number of people looked out the window to see what train was coming down the mainline outside. That simply wouldn't happen with sound fitted inside a small loco because it doesn't have the depth to be convincing. There is no right or wrong on this, we all just enjoy our hobby in slightly different ways. I can see why some folk will love sound fitted locos and that is great because it is a part of the hobby they enjoy. Its also great as a bystander to see (well hear really) how sound has improved over the years.  As shown above I have some G scale locos with sound but sound still doesn't work for me in N or 00. It just about works for me sometimes in 0 where the larger speaker can give a bit more depth.

One of my favourite things at home was to run the train passing sounds I have recorded to match my train movements on the layout through my large Bluetooth speaker. This speaker could make the floor vibrate as the loco was opened up. I loved it!   For some reason the rest of the family didn't approve.

As you say, even in O gauge the sound quality can be disappointing. A cheap speaker sited badly is never going to give great results.

Quote from: Ted on September 05, 2020, 07:30:20 PM
I've sound fitted 10 out of my 35 (and growing) collection.

I love it. I dare say I'd not be in the hobby if it weren't for DCC and sound!

There's simply no way I'd run DC.

It's imperative you use the best speaker and sound file, it makes so much difference. I've tested 15 or so speakers and Zimo make the best, far more bass than you'd expect from such small devices.

How can you not like my CL37? 😁


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JIaMzOfVJOE

Good to hear that, Ted, but for some of us, DCC in N simply did not exist when we started our layouts.

But it's great that you have been able to begin with the system in place. 

Maybe it partly depends on what sort of layout you (are going to) run. On a continuous run with several trains on the go at once, sound might just be a cacophony. But on a model of a sleepy branch terminus, I can see it might be great.

As others say, each to their own 

I didn't mean to sound condescending. No pun intended...

Standing next to a Class 37 in real-life is a sonic experience potent enough to strip the enamel from your teeth!

When it comes to scaling that sound down some 150 times, you have to appreciate the limitations and use your imagination a little.

I'm still in my 30's and grew up with technology.

I'm sure that makes me biased towards the features and capabilities of DCC over DC, it's probably the reason I'm drawn to sound too!

In fact the whole experience of DCC + sound + automation, equates to gamification for me. It adds so many levels and variables that I know can't (won't?) consider hobbying without these features and facilities at my disposal.

Again, if you grew up with DC then you probably look at me and think I'm just wasting my time and money, perhaps even overcomplicating things. You may well have a point! Horses for courses as they say.

Now, back to defending my favourite feature... sound!

Your experience of sound can be ruined for several key reasons:

1) A poor soundfile is the biggest issue.

Paul Chetter (Digitrains) and Legomanbiggo (DCKITS) are - in my opinion - by far the best sound projects. I've tested 5 suppliers now and these two either have the edge, or simply blow the others away.

It's not just about the sound either. It's the drivability of these projects, sounds and actions that reflect your throttle inputs etc. This adds yet another layer of immersion.

2) The wrong speaker in N gauge is all too common and ruins the experience.

Like I say, I've tested many speakers now. The very best are Zimo Sugar and Micro Cube. Not to be confused with "Rail Exclusive" for Zimo, they are slightly different and not as good.

The Zimo Micro is a small 12x8x8 chamber and rather impressive. It will fit in virtually all models.

Zimo Sugar Cube is larger and is rather snug (tight as anything), even in larger models. It won't always fit.

The ESU chamber 50342, which is modular, is nearly on par with the Zimo Cube and also excels at >7mm depth.

The difference between these and others is staggering. The above options all offer bass response and fidelity unmatched by many, many other products at this scale.

3) The wrong volume!

Your volume is too loud. Outside of exhibitions you really don't need to be pumping out >80% volume sounds. Distortion ruins the sound and these small speakers are easy to over amplify. You'll actually get a better bass response from about half volume, because that tiny speaker isn't getting over-worked.

It also sounds out of place when one loco is producing enough noise to fill the room and ruins the experience.

You can also set a function to reduce the volume right down to say, 20%, when a loco is idle or parked up. Leaving your main loco(s) at normal volumes whilst moving around.

----

Many of you will know these things, but for those on the fence or considering sound I hope that gives you some food for thought.

A very comprehensive and informative post. 

Unfortunately 35 years too late for me! 

Although most of my locos are DC my layout is switchable and I have a small selection of DCC locos all of which have sound.
Tony (Yet-Another) said in an earlier post that the sound of his locos took him back to a time and a place and that's exactly how I feel.  Admittedly some of the sound files are gimmicky but others conjure up memories of happy days in the Alps watching and listening to the real thing.
Sound in "N" will probably never be able to replicate what we would hear when standing next to a loco but why should it? At the scale distance most of us view our locos from I find the depth of sound more than adequate.