Should I go for sound?

[GrahamB]

I went dcc on my latest layout simply because I acquired a couple of dcc fitted locos and I thought I'd give it a go. Whilst I could (and still can) see advantages and disadvantages, it was fitting a stay alive that really sold me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRkDO1eGbjo

[daversmth]

 Well I have gone in a different direction for sound.
My layout runs under computer control, so I find sound samples, and synchronise the samples to what each loco is doing, playng the sound through the computer. Cost, zero. Nice deep base rumbling sound quality.
I use it mostly for horns, whistles, etc.
For full sound of engine noise I play that for only one loco at a time otherwise it morphs into a noise if used for multiple licos at the same time.

[Graham]

I went dcc on my latest layout simply because I acquired a couple of dcc fitted locos and I thought I'd give it a go. Whilst I could (and still can) see advantages and disadvantages, it was fitting a stay alive that really sold me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRkDO1eGbjo

totally agree, I am trying to put stay alive's in where I can. Out of interest what value of cap have you installed on the 08.

[GrahamB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRkDO1eGbjo

totally agree, I am trying to put stay alive's in where I can. Out of interest what value of cap have you installed on the 08.
[/quote]
200uF 16V. Zimo Tantalum capacitors from Kevin at Coastal DCC. They come in a pack of four.

[Graham]

thanks for that, have been putting 2 of those into Class 66's and they make a big difference to the running.

[Chris Morris]

Surely something like a class 66 with all those wheels for pick up shouldn't need stay alive.

[Ted]

Excluding the 08's - I have to say, I've not needed stay-alive so far.

That suggests you have an underlying issue that needs fixing in either the loco, the track laying or cleanliness of the rails.

Stay-alive is just masking the issue.

[Les1952]

My N-gauge layouts are all roundy-roundies and apart from the first one, Furtwangen Ost (now sold) all DCC. 

My problem with sound is that a train charging along the front of a layout (or even trundling) will make the same sound all the way along apart from a horn or whistle.  To show off the benefits of sound that train (or loco) needs a reason to show off- either stopping in a station or at a signal, or shunting.

My first DCC layout was Hawthorn Dene.  I have only three sound-fitted locos out of about 120 available for this.  The 2MT works exclusively with the inspection saloon and stops out front so the boss can talk to the foreman.  Cue whistle, brakes, loco going through its random shovelling/injectors/blowing off steam while standing then guard's whistle, answering toot and off it goes.  The WD or A3 have a signal to be held at- again coast to a stop, brakes, whistle for attention and then start with whistle toot when the signal clears.  The WD tends to be used more than the A3 as the latter has a faithfully copied Flying Scotsman sound file and the prototype whistle is rubbish...  Fine. Other trains don't really need sound.

The OO layout is a shunting plank and some locos have sound, but being short wheelbase locos can lose contact momentarily, at which point the sound goes dead.  Need for a  bigger stay-alive?

Croft Spa has the inspection saloon or the 2MT working a shunting parcels.  I've toyed with a sound-fitted DMU going through its gearbox across the front after stopping but my DMU fleet is green and so far the Farish DMU is blue- and the wrong class for this prototype location.

The latest is a Black Forest layout- but most locos are overhead wire electrics.  Apart from the Taurus which whines its way upwards through an octave on starting most electric locos don't make much in the way of interesting sounds.  Nothing in this fleet sound-fitted nor all that likely to be.

At its last few shows even Hawthorn Dene's sound locos tended to run in silent mode- there was too much background noise in the halls.

To conclude this ramble experience has shown me that sound is OK if there is a reason for it, otherwise probably not worth the expense.  The next layout might be a steam shed or a terminus layout- scope for sounds and a reason for the interesting ones.

Les

Having said that you could always do what we did with the Late Trevor Webster's "Parnhams" layout at Warley where a thumping great speaker under the layout meant we were drowning out the aisle beyond the next at times and people were wondering how a Union Mills loco was so noisy.......

[Ted]

My problem with sound is that a train charging along the front of a layout (or even trundling) will make the same sound all the way along apart from a horn or whistle.  To show off the benefits of sound that train (or loco) needs a reason to show off- either stopping in a station or at a signal, or shunting.

Sorry to selectively quote, but a 'premium' sound scheme on Zimo and ESU does way more than just play the same sound.

Throttle hold, braking, unloaded, loaded and varied on and off throttle applications. For example, Biffoman Class 37 has random wheelslip when starting from standstill and applying >80% throttle. You won't shoot off, quite the opposite; the loco labours. And more besides.

So if you want to drive the loco, then the premium sound schemes with a quality speaker are awesome.

If however, you just set your loco at half throttle and watch it loop around and around... then I agree, sound is a complete waste!

---

As an aside (and not directed at Les), an entry level sound setup is often a poor first experience that sullies opinion of what is on offer at the higher end.

[belstone]

Sorry to selectively quote, but a 'premium' sound scheme on Zimo and ESU does way more than just play the same sound.

Agreed.  I've just acquired my first sound-equipped loco, a Class 26 (Digitrains Activedrive on a Zimo decoder).  Even after playing with it for just a short time I'm amazed at how convincing it sounds IF you drive the loco in the correct manner.  I found I needed to crank up the acceleration and deceleration CV settings (CV3/4) and drive the loco on the throttle and brake, rather than just turning a knob as most of us are used to doing. Having tried active braking I'm now annoyed that my non-sound decoders don't have it. I'm planning to do a steam loco next and it will be very interesting to see whether I can get the same result there.

The layout I'm building is set in a remote part of the Borders, and I think sound can play a big part in creating the right atmosphere.  I need to look at low level background sounds (sheep, mostly) but mustn't overdo them: Stobs was (and is) a very quiet and tranquil place, apart from the trains.  I suspect many people are put off DCC sound by what they see and hear at exhibitions: depot layouts with twenty brightly coloured post-privatisation diesels all chattering away through little speakers, LED lights glittering.  Instant migraine, and nothing like a real depot where anything not actually about to go out gets shut down to reduce pollution and save fuel.

Richard

[ntpntpntp]

... depot layouts with twenty brightly coloured post-privatisation diesels all chattering away... and nothing like a real depot where anything not actually about to go out gets shut down to reduce pollution and save fuel.

Yes, that's what a friend who inhabits loco depots has said.   I've never understood why some depot layout operators just want to have everything idling all the time, it just creates a cacophony of tinny sounds.

[njee20]

For the same reason half the sounds are of no practical use, gimmicks!

[Steven B]

Diesels were left ticking over years ago - to shut them down risked not being able to re-start them in some cases!

DCC Sound can add an extra dimension to a layout, but whilst I have five DCC sound decoders (class 101, HST, 37 40, & a Hornby TTS class 31 to fit in an old Ian Stoate dummy chassis'd loco) it's the DMUs I prefer to use, for one simple reason:

The biggest problem with DCC sound is the lack of sound from the rest of the train. Watch any train go by and there's plenty of sound to be heard from the wagons - brakes, wheels, couplings, buffers etc. These are missing from most DCC sound projects.



Steven B.

[njee20]

I always enjoy my Revolution TEAs for that reason, the weight means they've got a good 'clatter' to them, and a few of the wheelsets are squeaky, which adds atmosphere.

I agree through - I've got two sound fitted HSTs, and they're great for the sound of each power car passing separately.

[Les1952]

My problem with sound is that a train charging along the front of a layout (or even trundling) will make the same sound all the way along apart from a horn or whistle.  To show off the benefits of sound that train (or loco) needs a reason to show off- either stopping in a station or at a signal, or shunting.

Sorry to selectively quote, but a 'premium' sound scheme on Zimo and ESU does way more than just play the same sound.

Throttle hold, braking, unloaded, loaded and varied on and off throttle applications. For example, Biffoman Class 37 has random wheelslip when starting from standstill and applying >80% throttle. You won't shoot off, quite the opposite; the loco labours. And more besides.

So if you want to drive the loco, then the premium sound schemes with a quality speaker are awesome.

If however, you just set your loco at half throttle and watch it loop around and around... then I agree, sound is a complete waste!

---

As an aside (and not directed at Les), an entry level sound setup is often a poor first experience that sullies opinion of what is on offer at the higher end.

With an exhibition roundy-roundy where 80% of the trains cross the front with no change to speed there are 80% of the trains for which sound is an expensive luxury that isn't being used to its full potential.

Of course if every train on the prototype had stopped at Croft Spa it might have been a different story.  As it is I stop about ten times as many trains at the station as British railways did!.  The prototype didn't even have a signal for them to be stopped at...

What gets me about TTS sound in particular is that the exhaust sound can't be set correctly- I get very irritated by steam locos giving one exhaust beat per revolution-and-a-half (or whatever).  Possibly a result of too much of my youth misspent watching the real thing.

Les