Quote from: Webbo on April 28, 2016, 09:45:10 AM
Before sending it to me I would prefer that the retailer makes sure it can run around a track. I have bought several locos from N Scale Supply in the US and they have a sticker on the box declaring that the loco has been test run. I appreciate that.

Hve you asked any UK retailers to do that, and have any agreed? I'm moving back to Canada in a few months, and being able to buy from the Uk with the peace of mind that I won't have to go through the hassle, let alone cost, of returns will ensure my UK outline N Gauge modelling doesn't stagnate.

Quote from: NinOz on April 28, 2016, 01:49:55 PM

Quote from: Webbo on April 28, 2016, 09:45:10 AM
A two-way back and forth trip by air mail to the UK for a loco costs 20 pounds which I expect to be paid for by the retailer.
Webbo

Do they come to the party on this?
In the past, I have had to pay postage for return to Farish (Poole) but they paid return.

One loco went to Osborns and they did offer to pay the return to the UK; the other was Rails who didn't but I should have asked.

No, I haven't asked that locos be at least test run before shipping to Australia, but I will in the future.

Webbo

Wickness Models put a sound chip in one of my locos and sent me a YouTube video of it working before sending it to me, now that is service 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ80bkmiBds&feature=youtu.be

^^ That is good service indeed!

Quote from: Agrippa on April 28, 2016, 10:28:29 AM
Price of carriages seems to have increased quite a lot
recently, ordinary GF ones often £25, Pullmans £30.
At least with carriages and wagons there's no
electrical or mechanical things to go wrong
and the quality is now of a very high order.

Only £30?  On RMWeb they are moaning about Bachmann coaches having risen to £58......

Les

I've just taken delivery of the first brand-new loco I've bought for about a year (a Class 57), and on looking at it closely it has a crack in the buffer beam at one end beneath and above the hole for fitting the coupling hook.

Debating what to do now - am I being too picky, or does it go back? Granted it's a fairly minor issue and only visible if looked at closely, but at nearly a hundred quid you don't expect any faults, no matter how minor.

So looks like it's either put up with it, or a trip down to Sheffield tomorrow to see if they have another one. With the number of problems I've had with new locos over the past few years I think the only option now (with locos, at least) is to inspect and see them running in the shop - had enough of wasting time and postage costs sending things back!

I really don't think this standard of quality control is acceptable, and in markets with competition it wouldn't be tolerated. I buy several dozen computers at work every year, and I think that in the past three or four years I've had a grand total of one laptop with a fault out of the box - and these are vastly more complex machines than a model train!

I agree, you wouldn't accept a tv with a scratch on the screen
or a fridge with a dent in it , unless it was shopsoiled and had a
huge discount. The problem with uk n gauge is there are only
two main suppliers and not a huge number of model shops
on the high st.  If you bought an LG washing machine and it was
rubbish you could return it for a refund and get a Hotpoint,
Beko, AEG or any one of a dozen makes instead , but that's not 
an option with model trains.

I sense Agrippa has a major point here.  There is no real competition in the market for N Gauge  models of UK prototypes.  We are too small a market.  So with an effective duopoly, we customers are caught by the unmentionables.  We have minimal effective clout, and are vulnerable to the emotional blackmail of not biting the hand which feeds us.  Not an ideal position but I see little way out of it.

Quote from: davidinyork on April 29, 2016, 01:39:49 PM

Debating what to do now - am I being too picky, or does it go back?

I know it's a PITA, David, but I would send/take it back. It's maybe not Rails fault but unless it gets back to the manufacturer it won't register as a return.

Quote from: newportnobby on April 29, 2016, 03:09:47 PM

Quote from: davidinyork on April 29, 2016, 01:39:49 PM

Debating what to do now - am I being too picky, or does it go back?

I know it's a PITA, David, but I would send/take it back. It's maybe not Rails fault but unless it gets back to the manufacturer it won't register as a return.

Yep, that's what I'd decided! Going to take a trip down there tomorrow - I've phoned and checked they have another one in stock. They did suggest posting it back and they'd send another one, but to be honest I want to see the replacement in the shop so that I can reject it if there are any issues with it!

I know this is probably a minor point, and I don't want to derail this thread, but I thought it should be mentioned in regards to costs - and it's packaging.

Maybe not so relevant to locos, but I've just bought some of the Dapol 6 wheeled milk tankers, and they're massively over-packaged. And it's not cheap packaging, either - 2 pieces of black foam (one custom cut), a piece of clear plastic sheet (not at all sure why that's needed!), in a very sturdy & heavyweight clear plastic case, all wrapped in a cardboard sleeve.

Although the above are all mass-produced, they're still not cheap. Of the total material cost (not including any design or labour costs, just materials/parts) I reckon the packaging accounts for at least 25% of the total on smaller wagons like this. I really don't see why it's necessary, and it all adds to the cost we pay. I just can't see any reason for it...

Quote from: jrb on April 29, 2016, 03:45:23 PM
I know this is probably a minor point, and I don't want to derail this thread, but I thought it should be mentioned in regards to costs - and it's packaging.

Maybe not so relevant to locos, but I've just bought some of the Dapol 6 wheeled milk tankers, and they're massively over-packaged. And it's not cheap packaging, either - 2 pieces of black foam (one custom cut), a piece of clear plastic sheet (not at all sure why that's needed!), in a very sturdy & heavyweight clear plastic case, all wrapped in a cardboard sleeve.

Although the above are all mass-produced, they're still not cheap. Of the total material cost (not including any design or labour costs, just materials/parts) I reckon the packaging accounts for at least 25% of the total on smaller wagons like this. I really don't see why it's necessary, and it all adds to the cost we pay. I just can't see any reason for it...

It's also badly designed packaging. They've made very slight improvements to it recently by cutting away finger gaps in it so you can remove the foam insert from the box to take the wagon out of the box, but the foam is way too dense for the model that it's 'protecting'.

The cheaper Farish packaging with a flexible inner blow moulded plastic package is actually quite a bit better. The Dapol one might survive a fair bit longer but as we're talking maybe a couple of million years for the Dapol one vs maybe a few thousand for the Farish one unless you tend to store your rolling stock in a working tumble dryer, it's extreme overkill.

Quote from: jrb on April 29, 2016, 03:45:23 PM
I know this is probably a minor point, and I don't want to derail this thread, but I thought it should be mentioned in regards to costs - and it's packaging.

Maybe not so relevant to locos, but I've just bought some of the Dapol 6 wheeled milk tankers, and they're massively over-packaged. And it's not cheap packaging, either - 2 pieces of black foam (one custom cut), a piece of clear plastic sheet (not at all sure why that's needed!), in a very sturdy & heavyweight clear plastic case, all wrapped in a cardboard sleeve.

Although the above are all mass-produced, they're still not cheap. Of the total material cost (not including any design or labour costs, just materials/parts) I reckon the packaging accounts for at least 25% of the total on smaller wagons like this. I really don't see why it's necessary, and it all adds to the cost we pay. I just can't see any reason for it...

Yes, fair point. I see the need with locos - their weight means that if not tightly held in place there is a risk of damage in transit - but with coaches and wagons the old Farish method of a plastic tray in a card box seems perfectly OK, and I've not had any damaged items as a result.

I have no problem with the cost of model railway locos or rolling stock, my theory is if I cant afford it I just don't buy it I buy something else instead.
Compared to the American market British model railway market is quite small but the demand for various types of models is just as high, that I believe is what puts the cost of models at what they are.
I think people that model British or American types have very little to complain about, the Australian market is miniscule compared to other countries, for example an Aussie HO scale steam loco can cost $800au plus or 550 quid uk the model does not even exist and buyers have to wait up to and over two years before receiving the item, payment for the model has to be paid in advance, Aussie N gaugers usually have to buy an Atlas US loco then pay another $100 or 50 quid for a very average body to fit over the Atlas mechanism, that is why I model either British or American and shop within my means.

After visiting a Gauge 1 show today , I don't think we are that hard done by.  £4395 (a bargain) for a Duchess of Argyle.

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