Quote from: Dr Al on October 18, 2013, 01:14:03 PM
to using Gaugemaster DC controller which is PWM I believe. Wouldn't have classified these as particularly odd or funky controllers though!

PWM looks like a DCC signal, you need smooth DC for the DC mode to work.

On most decoders I've used the running properties don't really change much except that the starting voltage is higher. That can actually be rather useful on DC with some Dapol and UM locos when using poorer control units.

If DCC onboard becomes the norm as its just as cheap as making a DC PCB I suspect we'd see a DC/DCC switch on the loco bottom for a while or similar.

(and why the **** the manufacturers don't put the decoder socket in the fuel tank so you don't have to dismantle complicated delicate models is beyond me  )

Alan

Quote from: EtchedPixels on October 18, 2013, 01:19:54 PM
(and why the **** the manufacturers don't put the decoder socket in the fuel tank so you don't have to dismantle complicated delicate models is beyond me  )

Would work for most of the Farish models, but the larger Dapol motor often nestles down in the fuel tanks taking up that space.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Dr Al on October 18, 2013, 01:14:03 PM

Either way, DC or DCC are not going to die out any time soon IMHO so not sure there's really much of a debate to be had. Even if loco came DCC chipped only, with no DC, it's relatively simple to remove and wire the motor directly to the pickups to make DC friendly.

Cheers,
Alan

Thought about that on a Farish DMU chassis I am using for another project, but unless modifying the PCB it will need interference suspression fitted.

Personally I am always going to remain with DC as my layout is a computor and micro-processor free zone.

Dodger

I find the decoders that come pre-fitted in models are greatly lacking. DCC ready for me, at least then I can choose a decent quality decoder and not have to pay for the cheapest common denominator pre fitted, priced at a premium and be lumped with a decoder that I don't want. I don't think DCC is worth it for smaller layouts though, DC has been and always will be my preference for them, certainly not for single locomotive per train applications, DC has been and always will be my preference for them. US based layouts with multiple loco lashups and mid train helpers however, DCC is a necessity.

I use DCC on my N gauge layout and currently DC on my 2mm FS, but intend conerting this to DCC shortly.

To me, the benefits of DCC far outway the costs. Hearing as well as seeing a war dept loco creap around my layout with a long rake of wagons is fantastic.

Sorry - but this poll seems rather pointless ?

DC is the way of the past; DCC is the way of the future (until the next big thing comes along).

Some people don't like to be told this, but it's true.  At some point, the mfrs will stop selling DC-only engines; they will all either have a chip pre-installed or be DCC-Ready.

So what does this poll really tell us, apart from the fact that some people prefer one over the other    Nothing as far as I can see.

Quote from: MikeDunn on October 18, 2013, 07:21:16 PM
Sorry - but this poll seems rather pointless ?

DC is the way of the past; DCC is the way of the future (until the next big thing comes along).

Some people don't like to be told this, but it's true.  At some point, the mfrs will stop selling DC-only engines; they will all either have a chip pre-installed or be DCC-Ready.

So what does this poll really tell us, apart from the fact that some people prefer one over the other    Nothing as far as I can see.

I think it is a little unfair to call the poll pointless

I for one, am very interested to see what proportion of forum readers are using DCC vs DC. I'm pretty sure the likes of Graham Farish and Dapol would too as they plan future releases. After all DCC has been with us for quite a few years now, but it has not yet been universally adopted - when I 'voted’ this morning it was showing about 50/50 split between the two. The average life of a model railway layout is measured in years, maybe even decades in some cases and clearly the rewiring and cost of chipping a collection of locos is too much for many of us.

Having said that, I would imagine that the pace of DCC adoption has increased with the availability of locos with 6 pin decoder sockets. But this is a relatively new trend. As for DCC fitted, if you ignore the Peco experiment, Dapol have only recently started releasing locos with this option.

So IMHO it will be a long while before we see the end of DC. I do agree with you that pretty much all future models will come ready to simply fit a DCC chip plus the option to order with a chip fitted - I prefer the former because I want the freedom to fit the chip of my choice. There is a way to go before we get to that situation though as the manufacturers still have a long way to go to get round to update a lot of their current range.

Aside from that, polls are fun

OK, you've bitten 

What does this poll tell us apart from x% use DC, Y% use DCC and z% use both ?  It doesn't ask us anything bar what we use ... and that is pretty meaningless to anyone except ourselves.

Fred uses DC; big deal, I don't know Fred and he doesn't know me.  Why should I care if he says DCC is evil & should be eradicated ?  (Apologies to any Fred reading this )

Vendors are increasingly moving away from multiple circuitry for the same model to a single (non-cosmetic) version; making it DCC-Ready & installing a plug allows the DC fraternity to use exactly the same loco as the DCC fraternity.  Pretty soon, DC-only will be extinct (apart from hold-outs like UM).  Why should any main vendor care about how many are using one vs another, when they can cater for both without impacting their bottom line by having to make two versions ? 

Will we ever go DCC-only ?  Maybe; but I suspect not as vendor chips are usually not much cop (just look at the garbage Hornby make in this arena), and DCC people have their own preferences on what chips to use.

Quote from: Chetcombe on October 18, 2013, 07:56:49 PM
The average life of a model railway layout is measured in years, maybe even decades in some cases and clearly the rewiring and cost of chipping a collection of locos is too much for many of us.

And ... ?  A DCC-Ready loco with a blanking plate runs just as well (more so perhaps ?) than a DC-Only loco ...  DC die-hards will be served as much as DCC fans when this day dawns ...

I just fail to see the point of this poll and the discussions ...  Nothing new is being revealed; no secrets are creeping out ...  This discussion happens several times a year, if not more, to no avail.  Those who dislike DCC still dislike it regardless of what others say.  Those that like DCC still like it.  We just get people arguing at each other and refusing to listen to the opposition ... just like politicians.

I repeat. Polls are fun

If you don't find them fun, then you don't have to participate

baring teeth, to show that I don't "bite"

Well this has opened up a can of worms, and as others have stated it does not matter what you run with as long as you are happy and getting enjoyment from your model railway, I have chosen DC and DCC because I need DC to run my loco's in, no one has the real answer that DCC is the way to go because in my opinion I do not think there is a DCC system that is perfect, there is always a snag or something more you want out of DCC and certain controllers do not give you that. At least with DC you know what you are getting, it is straight forward and sometimes I wished I had gone down this route and kept things simple.

Quote from: MikeDunn on October 18, 2013, 07:21:16 PM
Sorry - but this poll seems rather pointless ?

DC is the way of the past; DCC is the way of the future (until the next big thing comes along).

Some people don't like to be told this, but it's true.  At some point, the mfrs will stop selling DC-only engines; they will all either have a chip pre-installed or be DCC-Ready.

So what does this poll really tell us, apart from the fact that some people prefer one over the other    Nothing as far as I can see.

DCC has been around a fair number of years, and even still this poll shows at this point that well over half of people responding are DC only or use both.

There are many, myself included who prefer DC for a variety of reasons, but recognise the benefits DCC can give.

I think we will still have both in equal measure for the foreseeable future. After all, most DCC users will prefer a socket to a hard wired chip so that they can use their decoder of choice and so a DCC ready model with a blanking plug for DC users fits both bills admirably no problem!

Roy

As a relative newcomer to the hobby (childhood interest was governed by dad/santa) I have gone straight to DCC as it just seems easier. I'm sure I could learn and understand the principles of more complexed DC operation like isolation etc but to me DCC skirts around this need. As this is my secondary hobby I just want things to be simple.

However, with regards to DCC fitted I just do not see the point. Unless the decoders are CT I would remove and ebay the offending decoder, which is hassle I don't think anyone would want.

As it stands I think the 6 Pin DCC ready situation we find ourselves in is the perfect scenario. A few screws to fit a decoder is acceptable in my opinion. Most loco's don't even need this and the newer Farish steamers are following the Diesel route of having clip on/off tender bodies.

I find this a interesting topic. I imagined there would be a topic about this soon and thought to myself I will have a lot of opinions on this subject but when I got to write this post my mind went blank. 

Anyway I decided to stay DC. I was going to go digital back in July but read so much about problems, cost and watnot I got put off also did you know you can have sound fitted on a DC loco I read about it in the railway modeller mag in the readers section also you can double head some locos in DC too. But cab control is complicated though or I find it complicated.

Plus do you remember the first digital cameras the quality in them was awful I think the very first photograph had better quality picture than the first digital camera.

But as somebody said it is what your happy with that's the main thing. I still might go DCC but maybe not till next year due to funds. 

I did have more logical comments but can't remember them they'll come back to me.

Interesting thread I think I read all through the post.
Ian

I like DCC, it works well and the sound fitted stuff is brilliant - but, I can't justify spending the money on it, so i'll stick with my trusty gaugemasters. My Gaugemaster controllers owe me about £60 in total, much cheaper than even the most basic DCC set up. In this case I can't afford DCC so I don't buy it !

DCC is now fairly old. I see the future in the larger scales being on board battery power controlled by Bluetooth or WiFi technology. Modern motors and batteries will allow several hours running between charges now. No power on the rails at all. Where this will leave N gauge and for that matter DCC in the future I just don't know.
Ken