why aren't there more pre grouping locos available in N?

[GlenEglise]

Unfortunately Recreation21 (Rue-d'Etropal) does not advise suitable chassis for his bodies. I also suspect that in many cases the bodies are to scale and therefore may not fit commercially available chassis.

He does have a comment on most of his products more or less to that effect.

That's because they are designed for larger scales with scratch built chassis but he shrinks them down to give 'N' modellers a starting point. As for scale he reduces them to 1:148 and/or 1:152 so that is not an issue. However in some cases splashers can make things a tight squeeze for some of the the wider treaded 'N' gauge wheels.
View them as a scratch aid requiring a modified or scratch built chassis.

Yes, much as I thought. Scratchaid requires a degree of skill which I lack therefore only of use to those with the skills.
I do know that "Old dogs can learn new tricks" however I don't think I'd have the patience required.

Cheers,

GE

[icairns]

As stated by GlenEglise and thebrighton above, it is true that Simon Dawson (Recreation21) typically shrinks his larger designs down to 1:148 or 1:152 which often makes the internal space inside the body very tight for fitting a proprietary N gauge chassis.

However, I have successfully completed models from him that included the LNER Class A5 4-6-2T (GNR Class 9N), and NER Classes ES1 and EB1 electric locos.  Yes, they all needed work to fit a chassis that would work, but that is why I do railway modelling.
 
I currently have an LNER Class Q6 0-8-0 (NER Class T2) and LNER Class G5 0-4-4 (NER Class O) from Recreation21 on the workbench.

As thebrighton states, the width between the splashers is often an issue and it is definitely so with the LNER G5 3D print.  It will not fit the Dapol Mark I M7 chassis because of this.  I am waiting for the Dapol Mark II 0-4-4 chassis to try it out on the G5.  I know I will have to widen the splashers but I want to make sure that there are no other interferences before I start modifying the 3D print.
 
A couple of years ago, I contacted Simon Dawson and asked if he had ever considered designing prints for a couple of NER locos that I was interested in.  He replied that he had the drawings of these locos and that he would think about it.  In about a week, both designs were available on his Shapeways site in N gauge (I am not suggesting that people inundate Simon with their wish-lists but I just wanted to illustrate that he is a prolific designer).
 
By the way, I just used Recreation21 as an example of someone that has a wide and eclectic range of 3D prints that includes many pre-grouping designs available in N gauge.  There are many others.

Ian

[Southerngooner]

I've also nothing but praise for Rue d'Etropal, and have made several of his loco and coach models. I agree that they aren't designed to fit a particular chassis but I have never had any problems getting a suitable chassis to fit. Yes, occasionally you need to open out a bit inside but the plastic files easily and with care you can get things to fit.

I had the same experience when I asked him about an SR W class, which arrived on his site in a month or so, and also with a Period 1 LMS full brake which only took three days! It's only the problems with quality of printing from Shapeways that is a bit on an issue, but sanding and filing plastic is a lot easier than battling with chunks of crude whitemetal from the likes of Langley or others.

I would suggest that anyone wanting to try something looks at Ian's article in RM, or my earlier one about the J50, if they want to see how easy it is to fit a chassis into a 3D print. Yes, you have to experiment a bit sometimes but unless you try how do you know if you can do it or not?

I'm currently working on an SECR P class from @jimsan, which fits on a Terrier chassis. Gareth (@thebrighton) was most helpful in getting the chassis apart and making it fit the tiny body, and for a small model I was most impressed with how it goes together. I will be modelling it in its later years so no need for a complex livery!

It can be done, but I suspect RTR versions of most of these won't happen in N, or at least not for a long time.

Dave

[GAD]

For pre-grouping or pioneer era to take off it will need at least one manufacturer to offer not just locos, as has been said above several pre-grouping era locos are available as pre-grouping livery, more are available in grouping livery and a repaint would suffice, but not that many. As for rolling stock there are a few coaches and goods rolling stock in pre-grouping liveries, but a lot more will be needed to make pre-grouping more than a small part of N gauge modelling. More so for the really early era.

[martyn]

There's also the problem that pre-grouping classes that still existed in BR days may well have been extensively altered and rebuilt. This would affect the theory of 'long life, multiple livery' type decisions taken by manufacturers.

For example, the 'Claud Hamiltons' (D14, 15, 16 and sub classes; a hint in the number of classes!) in the 1950s were much changed visually from the locos that first came from Stratford in 1900.

The 'Directors' built by the LNER had their height cut down from the GCR version.

And so on. Plus, as been said, what are they going to haul?

Martyn

[Platy767]

And so on. Plus, as been said, what are they going to haul?

Great question, maybe there are lots of unmade Graham Hughes wagon kits in drawers (I have some)?
RCH 1887 and 1907 7 and 5 planks and NE hoppers from the 2mm SA?
NGS MR(and CLC) van?

I would like to see some pre 1923 wagon transfers. I thought about making some plasticard or brass stencils for airbrushing GC, GN, GE, CLC etc, but that's as far as I got. 2mmSA has SDJR, CR and NB listed in Shop 2.

The old farish suburbans, cut down, with ultima roof and ends make a passable 50' coach.

@PGN Thanks, would like to have a copy of your list, particularly rolling stock - I was an absent member when they were published in 2009. (Actually I should buy the Journal DVD)

Mark

[joe cassidy]

I assume that the Matheson models coal wagons are pre-grouping but they are a bit pricy.

The N Gauge Society do kits for a GWR iron mink van and an outside-framed Midland Railway van.

I have pre-ordered some pre-grouping goods stock from Rails I believe to go with my SECR C class loco. I'm looking forward to receiving those.

[Newportnobby]

I have pre-ordered some pre-grouping goods stock from Rails I believe to go with my SECR C class loco. I'm looking forward to receiving those.

Would they be the Rapido packs, Joe? I've ordered packs 1,2,3 and 4 (but in BR livery)

[PGN]

What are they going to haul?

I have over 50 pre-grouping trains in commission ... so the rolling stock is there. (OK, so some of the wagons are 1923 RCH designs ... but once they're in pre-grouping liveries, you don't really notice that so much ... )

There's plenty of pre-grouping transfer sheets to be had, too ... and the letters from a Big 4 sheet can be mixed and matched (although different sizes can be a pain ... but a little bit of judicious brushwork can extend the N from NE to the same height as the G grom GW to give you GN, for instance ... )

HMRS 4mm methfix sheets are great, too ... they have a range of sizes, and the smaller letters in 4mm work very well as larger letters in 2mm.

I used to make a lot of use of Letraset rub-down sheets too (generic alphabet sheets) ... but these, unfortunately, are no longer available.

[joe cassidy]

I have pre-ordered some pre-grouping goods stock from Rails I believe to go with my SECR C class loco. I'm looking forward to receiving those.

Would they be the Rapido packs, Joe? I've ordered packs 1,2,3 and 4 (but in BR livery)

You're correct Mick, Rapido not Rails

[PGN]

Can you post a link, joe, for the benefit of anyone wishing to lay their hands on some?

[icairns]

However, I have successfully completed models from him that included the LNER Class A5 4-6-2T (GNR Class 9N), and NER Classes ES1 and EB1 electric locos. 

Whoops! Sorry, I meant "GCR Class 9N" not "GNR".

Ian

[joe cassidy]

Here is a link to Rapido Trains website :

https://rapidotrains.co.uk

[PGN]

Thanks joe ... that takes me to their website, but I don't see anything there about transfers ...

[Newportnobby]

I have pre-ordered some pre-grouping goods stock from Rails I believe to go with my SECR C class loco. I'm looking forward to receiving those.

Would they be the Rapido packs, Joe? I've ordered packs 1,2,3 and 4 (but in BR livery)

You're correct Mick, Rapido not Rails

Yeah, but mine are on order with Rails. 15% cheaper