Bulleid

[Bealman]

Didn't know quite where to post this, so I plonked it here. Hope thats ok.

Coming from up north I've never been a great fan of the Southern in terms of a region to model, though I do have a fascination with some of Bulleid's designs: I will acquire a Q1 in the future, I love it's ugliness! I also like boxpok wheels and have a rake of Farish green coaches.

I am totally fascinated by The Leader - a steam locomotive trying to look like a diesel!! (I put that as #1 in the poll). Apparently it was horrendous to operate especially if you happened to be the fireman, and quickly became known as 'The Bleeder'.

However, my question is (and honestly, I have never known - honest!): is 'Bulleid' pronounced 'Bulleeed' or 'Bull eyed' ?

[Newportnobby]

Everything I have seen and heard points to Bulleeed.

Bulleyed sounds like a medical problem

[longbridge]

Having spent some time on the South coast as a kid I have a great love for the non rebuilt Merchant Navy, BOB and West Country Locos, dare I say IMO they are better looking than the Gresley A4s

[EtchedPixels]

You might want to look where Bulleid served before he took over from Maunsell.  He worked on the GNR under Ivatt (senior) and then the LNER under Gresley.

Bulleid is of course also part of the fine traditional of "Great British Engineers who weren't actually British" - he was a Kiwi .

I do find the various railway rivalries amusing sometimes, because the actual engineers moved around the companies and had very tangled inter-relationships.

The Gooch family are a good example - Sir Daniel is well known, but what is less well known is that a brother John Gooch worked on the Grand Junction and then became the locomotive superintendant of the LSWR  and another of his brothers Thomas was surveyor for the Newcastle & Carlisle and the the Manchester & Leeds.

[Malc]

All the companies had good designers, and to help out they used to loan each other locos to test. A bit of reverse engineering went on and that's how the technology improved.

[moogle]

I pronounce it 'Bull-eed'.

You might want to look where Bulleid served before he took over from Maunsell.  He worked on the GNR under Ivatt (senior) and then the LNER under Gresley.

Bulleid is of course also part of the fine traditional of "Great British Engineers who weren't actually British" - he was a Kiwi .

I do find the various railway rivalries amusing sometimes, because the actual engineers moved around the companies and had very tangled inter-relationships.

The Gooch family are a good example - Sir Daniel is well known, but what is less well known is that a brother John Gooch worked on the Grand Junction and then became the locomotive superintendant of the LSWR  and another of his brothers Thomas was surveyor for the Newcastle & Carlisle and the the Manchester & Leeds.

Ironic really that Ivatt, Aspinall and Maunsell all started their careers in Ireland on the Great Southern and Western while Bullied finished his in Ireland on C.I.E! I guess you went where the work was...

[tgv_obsessed]

It might be one of those odd names like Dalziel or Menzies

so perhaps it was correctly pronounced Booée

[Greybeema]

I'm origainally a Londoner so it's Bull-id for me...

Interestingly my brother worked on preserved WC's & MN's and said that the original chain drive worked fine if maintained properly but with modern engineering techniques it would work even better....

Personally I like them un-rebuilt and rebuilt.  I also like the Q1.  Not ugly just utilitarian in looks.  I think they call it "function over form" nowadays...

[RogerB]

Yes,

the airstreamed pacifics were fine locos to look at and great to have as models. On a good day they were great machines, but apparently required a huge amount of maintenance that was difficult to access and the oil leaks caused the cladding to become soaked then catch-fire! The rebuilt versions prompted similarities to the BR Std classes and I recall these thundering past my infants school in the 1950's on the Golden Arrow. Lessons had to stop while they went past with massive rattling of the fire escape and smoke filled the classroom if the doors were left open in summer.

As many have commented, OVSB tried too many innovations at the same time and then moved-on before they were perfected. I have seen this in may other industries and it seems to be the mark of the "genius" designer. You need bottomless pockets and a team of skilled people to translate the ideas into a workable form.

My ideal models really need to be MNs, BOBs or WCs in unrebuilt form.

I agree that the Q1's are "functional" looking and snapped up a Dapol version ASAP.   

Also a Londoner and definitely "Bullid" - this also tends to be the received pronunciation in newsreel film of the era. 

[BobB]

Let me state from the start that my primary interest is diesel and electric - or in other words I have not studied steam or its designers in depth.

Having said that, the fascination with Bullied and his pacifics is a puzzel. So many different views, anomalies of re-building during manufacture of standards and the start of the modernisation plan; and still we argue the relative merits.

Without the in depth research, I think the problem is that we expected so much, we got some of it, and ended up with a mixed bag.

Oh well, the discussion will continue and I'll carry on watching from the side lines.

[Bealman]

ok then BULLID it is then, but it sounds funny to me... Almost like BULLIT... No no that was Steve McQeen.... But thanks to all of you above for the enlightening info! Looking forward to more! I still am uncomfortable with 'Bullid' though. The newsreel evidence would be hard to dispute, I guess.

[RogerB]

The fascination with Bulleid Pacifics is I think almost because they were flawed, but on the day could do amazingly well - almost like my other passion of Brit Bikes and designer Edward Turner - but that is another discussion topic altogether.
Also, as the last Pacifics designed  before Nationalisation they do mark a full-stop to the private Co devlopment of steam locos. Coupled to this is the attempted technical innovation and initial wierdness of the appearance - with almost American streamliner styling.   

There are many books on the subject including: The Bulleid Pacifics of the Southern with a forward by OVSB himself, Bulleid Locomotives with a forward by his son HAVB and Bulleid Pacifics at Work with contributions from HAVB and Riddles with varying levels of independent criticism.

Overall I am actually looking at having models that appeal and maybe stand-out or typify the era I wish to represent. Like many nostalgic periods and our memories of them, I am sure the '40's through to the  '60's Southern was not all about Bulleid Pacifics, Q1's etc any more than WW2 was all about Spitfires and Lancasters, but they do convey stand-out crystallised focal points of (retro-) modernism that are very satisfying to look back-on and model today.

[edwin_m]

Also, as the last Pacifics designed  before Nationalisation they do mark a full-stop to the private Co devlopment of steam locos.

That distinction surely belongs to Peppercorn? 

[RogerB]

You are probably right if you consider the Peppercorn locos to be new designs, but I tend to think of them as developments of the previous Gresley/Thompson models, wheras the Bulleid pacific was radically different from earlier designs. A point that could be debated at length I am sure?

[fisherman]

one  wonders  if  he  was  bullied   at  school....