Hornby TT gauge is announced

[Hiawatha]

Simon Kohler was talking about 1:120 TT more than eight years ago as I found this blog entry from April 2016 of a TT modeller who was annoyed about the "wrong" TT scale for the Corgi Rail Legends and an envisaged RTR 1:120 TT.

http://eastmoor.blogspot.com/2016/04/corgi-rail-legends-missed-opportunity.html

[...]

A bit more digging found this article by Simon Kohler of Hornby. It's bascially about how he thought and considered that Hornby should reintroduce TT as a ready to run scale and range. What an interesting thought - however, there was one section which, to me, is one of the most arrogant pieces I've read concerning the model railway trade.

"I suppose the most radical decision I made when putting my initial thoughts together was to scale the UK 'TT' to match that of the European 'TT' which is 1:120. The old Tri-ang 'TT' was scaled to 3mm:1ft which equated to something like 1:101.6. according to Wikipedia. For me it was time for the days of UK basta.d scales to come to an end and although I may not be keen on losing the UK£ to the €uro I had no such qualms over the new UK 'TT' being compatible with the rest of Europe even though it may not have suited everyone."

For 'radical' I think 'arrogant' is more appropriate. And saying "according to Wikipedia" does not really give you much confidence in his background knowledge of the hobby. And it seems a very sad "I am Hornby - you will do as I say" attitude. And why would UK TT need to be compatible with European TT? How often would he think that an A4 would be seen alongside German electrics? If someone decides to run their layout so, I would suggest that the mixing of scales bothers them very litte - they're just doing their own thing!

[...]

"This article" should link to http://www.hornby.com/uk-en/news/simonsays/table-service/ but now only leads to https://uk.hornby.com/community/blog-and-news – I guess that Kohler's blog entry was removed once work on TT:120 began in earnest (other entries go back to 2011).



I can understand the choice of a new TT range instead of intensifying their N scale ambitions. Most good sellers have been done in N already – but from Dapol or Farish, not from Hornby. So they could bring a duplicate or triplicate A4 or HST or look elsewhere – to a "King" or the GT3? – or another gauge ... so far, understandable.

Where I think they go wrong is selling only via the Hornby website – this will make TT:120 a flop. And to be honest, I do hope for exactly that. A successful TT market would certainly have negative impact on new model development in N, and if Hornby would sell via retailers they could influence prospective buyers of small scale railways towards TT instead of N for a perceived "better value for money" as it's slightly bigger at comparable price.
But now, only selling via their webshop, why would a retailer recommend Hornby TT? I doubt that there are too many new modellers who will start directly by browsing the Hornby webshop and deciding on TT without comparing the size of the models at a shop.

I am a fan of Arnold, Scalextric and particularly Corgi, so I wish Hornby all the best for the future but I do hope that in a few years they realize that TT:120 was a costly mistake and recognize that there would be more revenue to make with new N gauge models.

[woodbury22uk]

I think there is the risk of some confusion here about Kohler's role at Hornby. He left the company at the end of March 2014 and did not return until the end of 2017 after the arrival of Lyndon Davies as MD. In between his times at Hornby he was with MREMag (the home of the blog) and Locomotion Models.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I notice nobody seems to have looked at the back page of the catalogue. As well as the disclaimer about the photographs, it says "the models in this catalogue are expected to be available during 2022". Looks like they have been delayed, and also looks as if a "phase" is 6 months — notice how the phases are "paired".

I don't now think TT120 is going to attract current N gauge modellers who are finding N is too fiddly as they get older — it's too close in size; TT-3 might have done better in that respect. If the publicity causes some people to go to a local model shop, Hornby have just given retailers an incentive to push "anything but TT" — if they haven't room for TT that could be N — always provided they have relevant items in stock. Might be an idea for Farish to reissue mark 1 coaches, for instance...

[Gwalton]

There is a plan B which is 3D printed bodies, I was planning to do a O.H.L.E 1960s themed layout in N using 3D printed bodyshells, the option is there for me to do it in TT if the Hornby product doesn't go to well and other UK outline manufacturers dont join in.
https://lincoln-loco.co.uk/ac-electric/

There are a few Shapeways 1:120 UK-outline/plausible-visitor prints out there too, including EM1 electric, Class 41 Warship and Class 66 diesels and a handful of smaller steam engines.

Mike

Thank you for the info.
I have looked at the 3mm society website and then clicked on all the supplier links, most are supplying the original size, several others have said they are now venturing into the 1:120 scale,
There are a couple of groups which I have joined and they are all buzzing over this, someone Cad designed a class 89 last week in 1:120 and is looking to sell 3D prints once its ready.

I will keep checking Shapeways to see if anything new pops up, I know Charlie from CMAC has resized some of his Woodhead electrics to this scale.
There was an article in the June Railway modeller about 3mm, the person who wrote that is on one of the groups I am in and has knowledge on how to make chassis units for 3D prints.

[joe cassidy]

Gaugemaster have now decided not to develop a British range in TT:120.

"Everyone here wishes our friends at Hornby all the very best of luck with their new venture and as modellers, we look forward to seeing their huge number of newly-announced TT:120 models emerge over the coming years."

And we mean that most sincerely 

[joe cassidy]

Where did this sudden push for TT come from? I'd always thought of it as very much a niche interest, like Z gauge. But I don't read model train magazines much, or look at forums other than sometimes this one. Has it become 'a thing' in other countries in recent years?

It's called "market development" - finding new customers outside of your traditional customer base.

[davidinyork]

Where did this sudden push for TT come from? I'd always thought of it as very much a niche interest, like Z gauge. But I don't read model train magazines much, or look at forums other than sometimes this one. Has it become 'a thing' in other countries in recent years?

It's called "market development" - finding new customers outside of your traditional customer base.

It's not though really, is it? It will absolutely be targeting people from the traditional customer base - i.e. people who would otherwise buy other gauges (probably OO in most cases given that that has the biggest market share by a long way). It's unlikely that anyone will only buy model trains on the basis that this new gauge is available - if it wasn't, they would buy another gauge and in the case of OO quite likely from Hornby.

The only major advantage it might give is that Hornby will - to start with at least - largely have a monopoly on the market for that particular gauge. If it doesn't flop, which is bound to be a risk, especially with them cutting the usual sales route out of the equation.

Time will tell!

[joe cassidy]

The main point that SK was making in the famous interview was that Hornby is targetting a non-traditional market - the "family market", who have never heard of Hornby Dublo, Triang, etc.

Best regards,


Joe
(ex Sunshine Desserts)

[davidinyork]

The main point that SK was making in the famous interview was that Hornby is targetting a non-traditional market - the "family market", who have never heard of Hornby Dublo, Triang, etc

I'm not convinced that such a 'new' market exists! Everyone knows that there is such a thing as model trains, and if asked to name a manufacturer of them most (in the UK) would say Hornby. I can't see any reason why a new gauge would prompt anyone to look at buying model trains if they weren't already considering it anyway.

[joe cassidy]

I didn't get where I am today without knowing the difference between "great" and "super".

CJ JC

[Bealman]

At the school where I worked for many years, they all knew I was a model railway nut. When the computer guy installed a new network, I asked him what my password was. He replied, "Bloody hell, George - Hornby of course"

[mrobs2002]

I don't now think TT120 is going to attract current N gauge modellers who are finding N is too fiddly as they get older — it's too close in size; TT-3 might have done better in that respect.

As someone who has tried N gauge and does find it too fiddly (sorry!), this new TT120 has attracted me. Rolling stock that's the correct size for the track? Hooray, at last!!. OO is too big (for me), N is too small (for me), TT120 looks like it might just hit the sweet spot.

I would have had absolutely zero interest is it was a new range of TT3.

I've pre-ordered an 08 in BR blue. When the track becomes available I'll order a small quantity to build a tiny plank (or maybe a box file? Hmmm . . .). Waiting for more wagons to be made available, and 1st-gen DMU would be nice (but that's not been mentioned at all so far).

If it fails, well I'll still have my loco and track.

What will kill it for me is if 'stuff' in future is only available if you pre-order. This 'blink & you miss it' type of product availability that seems to be prevalent today I find most annoying.

[Gwalton]

A lot of the questions people on here are asking are answered on this video

Simon gives his reasons as to why not N gauge

Someone on here said the couplings look too big on a catalogue photo, on the video they look ok.

Simon says that the track for N and OO gauge is the incorrect width, TT 1:120 the track is the correct width for the TT 1:120 rolling stock, so the rivet counters ears will probably pop up knowing that.

I really hope Hornby scale down the APT because I dont have the room to run a full size OO scale model.

video 1 link is here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biiFX3KS6GM&t=121s

[ntpntpntp]

When the track becomes available I'll order a small quantity to build a tiny plank (or maybe a box file? Hmmm . . .). Waiting for more wagons to be made available, and 1st-gen DMU would be nice (but that's not been mentioned at all so far).

The Peco TT:120 code 55 flexitrack and medium points are already available.  I bought some in advance so I could try my old TT3 stuff on it just for fun whilst waiting for the Hornby set to arrive in due course   I've had to widen the wheel back-to-backs by about 0.5mm and then yes it will run through the frogs. I'm seeing a very slight spark where the wide metal loco wheels are bridging the frog V just beyond the Unifrog, but nothing major that can't be dealt with with a bit of varnish or convert the Unifrog to be more like Electrofrog.  I'm expecting the Hornby points to be the usual "train set" power routing insulated frog type.

[gc4946]

Out of curiosity I joined the TT club for free.
I'm waiting to see how good their class 37s and 47s are once released.
I love to see their 4VEP downsized but it'll be a very long wait.
The only small steam locos planned so far are a GWR 57xx and J94.