Hornby TT gauge is announced

[davidinyork]

Where did this sudden push for TT come from? I'd always thought of it as very much a niche interest, like Z gauge. But I don't read model train magazines much, or look at forums other than sometimes this one. Has it become 'a thing' in other countries in recent years?

[njee20]

It's always had a bit of a following in Europe, but ultimately it's down to Peco, Heljan, Gaugemaster and then Hornby all announcing products, although the Hornby announcement has meant GM and Heljan dropping out.

Reasons for changing scales is because I have seen the Hornby range 1st hand, the class 50 and 56 which they do in OO gauge are superb, I have no doubts that when Hornby do the class 56 in TT, it will be miniature version of the OO gauge model with the correct roof for the era, Simon Kohler has said they will do the correct toolings, this is something that Dapol failed to do when they produced the class 56 in N gauge, some say the Dapol class 50 is too wide.

Are any of the diesels tooled? I've only seen the A3 and A4?

Given a OO gauge 50 from Hornby is £230, and that's a much bigger market, I'd suggest it's a bold assumption that the TT scale one will simply be a smaller version. Plus the colour of the GBRf one is shambolic. Up there with the worst of Dapol's errors. 

[Gwalton]

Have you seen this ?

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/news/hornby-tt-model-prototypes-examined/

[njee20]

Yes, and as I said, it's basically just the A3 and A4 (which are/were on display at Kings Cross), plus a 3D printed HST and 08? I certainly wouldn't be selling up because their OO gauge 56 and 50 are nice models. They've not even announced any intention to do a 56 have they?

I'm watching with interest, but I really don't think everyone else pulling out is good for the progress of the scale at all. That pushes it closer to being a Hornby fad I'd say.

[Gwalton]

Yes, and as I said, it's basically just the A3 and A4 (which are/were on display at Kings Cross), plus a 3D printed HST and 08? I certainly wouldn't be selling up because their OO gauge 56 and 50 are nice models. They've not even announced any intention to do a 56 have they?

I'm watching with interest, but I really don't think everyone else pulling out is good for the progress of the scale at all. That pushes it closer to being a Hornby fad I'd say.

unless you are in the Hornby TT 120 forum you won't know how well its doing. I don't think it will be fad, plenty have joined up, plenty are pre ordering stock. Peco TT 120 track is selling out in a lot of shops. I think hornby have advertised and presented it well.
As i said time will tell.

[njee20]

I'm not convinced that a forum is ever a good indicator of popularity, it's entirely self selecting. RMWeb has a few threads in the dedicated area, but I expect a cautious level of adoption. As you say, it'll certainly be interesting! I am less confident in the success of it than I was a couple of weeks ago, when Heljan and GM were 'in' too.

[Gwalton]

I'm not convinced that a forum is ever a good indicator of popularity, it's entirely self selecting. RMWeb has a few threads in the dedicated area, but I expect a cautious level of adoption. As you say, it'll certainly be interesting! I am less confident in the success of it than I was a couple of weeks ago, when Heljan and GM were 'in' too.

There is a plan B which is 3D printed bodies, I was planning to do a O.H.L.E 1960s themed layout in N using 3D printed bodyshells, the option is there for me to do it in TT if the Hornby product doesn't go to well and other UK outline manufacturers dont join in.
https://lincoln-loco.co.uk/ac-electric/

[ntpntpntp]

... the option is there for me to do it in TT if the Hornby product doesn't go to well and other UK outline manufacturers dont join in.

In which case I guess you'll be looking at the Continental TT locos for chassis?

I do "get" Heljan and GM's stated reasons for pulling out, though I can't help thinking the drive behind the introduction of British TT:120 has got to be down to some awareness of a major manufacturer developing a range even if the specifics weren't known until Hornby's announcements.

[njee20]

... the option is there for me to do it in TT if the Hornby product doesn't go to well and other UK outline manufacturers dont join in.

In which case I guess you'll be looking at the Continental TT locos for chassis?

I do "get" Heljan and GM's stated reasons for pulling out, though I can't help thinking the drive behind the introduction of British TT:120 has got to be down to some awareness of a major manufacturer developing a range even if the specifics weren't known until Hornby's announcements.

Yeah, it is a bit weird. It's obviously way too coincidental that 4 separate brands 'announced' TT within days of each other (albeit to varying degrees of commitment). I can only assume that they expected Hornby to sell through their retail network, as I do get the rationale behind not wanting to push people toward Hornby direct, and as I said previously Simon Kohler was quite bullish in saying it was "basically a Hornby thing", he clearly doesn't see it as any sort of industry collaboration.

[Bob G]

The whole point of railway modelling these days is that you can mix and match successfully. It makes the hobby more interesting.
A single brand train set might have been a good idea in the 1960s, with Hornby the expensive range and Triang the cheaper end, but now production is China based and we have universal standards there is no reason not to mix things up a bit.
I think the Hornby business model just sucks.
Their attitude of isolationism deserves to fail in my opinion.
They don't have to look far to see what isolation does to a country's economy.

Bob

[Bealman]

Good post, Bob 

[Gwalton]

 Simon Kohler was quite bullish in saying it was "basically a Hornby thing", he clearly doesn't see it as any sort of industry collaboration.
[/quote]
I got that impression in the launch video, they have been going at it since 2017 and created a new design team just for the TT scale. Simon said during the video that the class 37s and 47s were now being researched and the design manager said later in the video that older models "which I assume is the Railroad range" are being redeveloped for TT and the CAD will be used to update OO gauge models in the future.
What we are seeing now are the models ready for the 1st couple of phases which were probably started on in 2017 and possibly delayed due to lockdowns, I guess we will see the next phases once these models are finished
If they have put this much time,  effort and money into it then I can understand why they probably want to be the leaders in this scale, but there are models they have not done in OO gauge which other manufacturers have done and could do in TT if they feel there is a market for them.
Heljan said Ta Ta for now when they announced they were not doing the class 08, class 31 and 060 and are probably going to sit back and see how it goes with Hornby before reconsidering whether to enter TT.

[silly moo]

 Maybe Hornby want to make sure TT is a success before releasing models to the retailers or perhaps it's a case of being able to control prices. I would have expected them to supply the retailers with sets just so that customers could get a look at them but then I've read that existing modellers are not really the target market.

I think lots of people are waiting to see what will happen. I've joined the club as it's free and I wonder how many have done so without placing an order.

At least it gives us all something to talk about.

[maridunian]

There is a plan B which is 3D printed bodies, I was planning to do a O.H.L.E 1960s themed layout in N using 3D printed bodyshells, the option is there for me to do it in TT if the Hornby product doesn't go to well and other UK outline manufacturers dont join in.
https://lincoln-loco.co.uk/ac-electric/

There are a few Shapeways 1:120 UK-outline/plausible-visitor prints out there too, including EM1 electric, Class 41 Warship and Class 66 diesels and a handful of smaller steam engines.

Mike

[davidinyork]

Maybe Hornby want to make sure TT is a success before releasing models to the retailers or perhaps it's a case of being able to control prices.

That would make no sense at all in marketing terms - when introducing a new product range, particularly when it's something which is both novel and which people are in many cases going to want to see before buying, the aim would normally be to get it out there as much as possible, both for those reasons and because people seeing it in shops may buy it even if they'd not considered it before.

By selling solely from their own website they are significantly increasing the chances of it being a flop. They will no doubt have balanced this risk against the increased profit to be made if this retailing approach works, and decided to do it as they have. Time will tell whether it's a success - if it gets off to a bad start they may well become more keen to include retailers!

As regards controlling prices, they can do that anyway using the terms and conditions of supplying to retailers.