Scaling down time for N-gauge.

[Thebaz]

I have a basic timetable (in real time) I want to run on my layout but I'm not sure what would be a good representation of time in N-gauge. If I scale down time by the same amount as we do for size, I would get:
1min of real time = 24 seconds in n-gauge.
10min RT = 243 seconds (or 4.05mins)
30min RT = 12min n-gauge
1hr RT = 24min

Is this reasonable? It seems a little slow still. What do others do?

[njee20]

How are you getting to those numbers? (British) N being 1:148 1 minute should be 0.41 seconds, and an hour 24.3 seconds. That's pretty meaningless though.

1 minute = 1 hour is probably more reasonable. But it'll depend entirely on your layout. If you have a small BLT where that equates to one move a minute it's probably right. If you have a model of Clapham Junction... less so!

[Thebaz]

Ah yes, something went wrong with my maths there didn't it. Think I was doing 60/148 = 0.4 of a minute instead of a second. So I was right - it was a bit slow 

On the other hand I think 1hr=1min might be a bit quick for my layout. The current plan has 13 trains per hour (it is a junction after all) some of which are separated by as little as 3 minutes RT. I think 1min=10 seconds sounds about right.

[PLD]

Short answer is You don't...

You either scale down distance OR scale UP time (but not both at once)

For example, if the prototype is moving at 60mph, it travels 1 mile in one minute. The N gauge model should travel 1 (real) mile in 148 (real) minutes or 1 model mile = 1/148 (real) miles =35' 8" in one (real) minute.

On a conventional scale model layout the latter applies - we scale down distance so real time is correct while train movements take place.
What we can however do (and is common practice on exhibition layouts) is eliminate the dead time between movements. So as soon as one train leaves the stage, the next enters, even though in the case of a rural branch line terminus that could be 3 or 4 hours later per the timetable.

[LASteve]

I agree with what @PLD said, especially if you think about which exhibition layouts you've seen whether in person or on YouTube that you find interesting. For the most part, there's always something going on, with maybe a few quiet moments to admire the scenery, but anything other than the simplest layout will have more than one operator.

In your case, I'd suggest that you look at what you personally can cope with from the command-and-control perspective, unless you're planning to fully automate the railway and run it via software. If you've got 13 movements per hour for a busy junction, then each of those movements are going to take a minute of your time to deal with, being optimistic. Setting the route, running the train, returning it to home base, moving on to the next.

So you're down to about a factor of four - one hour of real time will take you 13 minutes of your time to reproduce with a little "dead" time between for reflection, coffee and a shot of Jameson's. 

[Steven B]

Time can only be elastic with model railways.

With the station limits time runs as 1:1. Running around a rake of coaches should take the same length of time on our models as it does on the real thing. Likewise shunting a rake of wagons.

The distance between stations is typically smaller on our models than it is on the real thing. If we are to replicate the say 20min journey between stops we can run our trains slower, speed up the clock or run round and round in circles for the requisite length of time - not ideal if you're running a non-stop London to Edinburgh train over a 400 mile route!

Then there's a gap between trains - often hours on the small branch lines we like to model. Do you leave the trains for the timetabled length of time, or simply jump forward to the next move?

Personally, I'd forget about time and work from a sequence. As long as the 10:08 arrives after the 9:53 does it mater if it's 15minutes later or the couple of days between operating sessions?

Steven B.

[Train Waiting]

So called 'fast clock' operation has been in use for model railways for many years.  It tends to be at its most effective for large, complex layouts with interconnecting movements and several operators - the late Norman Eagles' Sherwood Section being an example.  It is popular in the USA with some of the 'basement buster' set-ups there.

The best time ratio appears to depend on the particular layout in question and there has been much written about this over the years

The type of modelling more typical at present, at least in the UK, tends to be more inclined to a branch line station or a through station on an oval sort of thing.  These stations tend to have fairly long gaps between trains where even fast time would drag.  As helpfully mentioned by @Steven B , sequence operating works well with these types of layout.

Best wishes

John

[Bealman]

Wot John said. This suits those huge basement walk-around layouts, which I tried to emulate on my own layout with limited success.

I personally wouldn't be too much worried about the time frame so much as each scheduled move gets completed and things are back at the end of an operating session ready to start again.

Peter Denny's Buckingham Branch was a perfect British example of this, even though time did play a part - his electro-mechanical computer, "Automatic Crispin" controlling the whole thing!

A fly in the ointment with all of this, of course, are derailments and sticky trains!

[Nbodger]

A fly in the ointment with all of this, of course, are derailments and sticky trains!

And the fat controller (the human interface)

Mike H

[Thebaz]

Lots of good points there chaps, especially the derailments and sticky trains!

I am intending to work in a relatively slow way, certainly at first to practice what I will have to remember instinctively - route in and route out, including turnout settings on scene and off, on two cabs with 4 sections. This will help me to see if my fiddleyard arrangements will work (spoiler: I have my doubts), and therefore whether I have to re-plan that area. I'm sure it will be a delightful challenge.

[OffshoreAlan]

I'm sure it will be a delightful challenge.

Quite. Achieving perfection (whatever you select as such) will be an anti-climax, getting there will be absorbing and challenging.

[Les1952]

For your own layout rule 1 applies to time as well as to everything else.  Once you have something that feels right then it is right no matter what the clock hands of real time say.  Get a speed you feel comfortable with.

If exhibiting then the punters want something moving or something very absorbing to look at or (preferably) both.  I do, however remember (not in exact detail) the late Graham Smith's reaction when told by a punter he should be running Moorcock Junction to a timetable.  He got all the operators to stop and sit down with the comment "the next train isn't due until half-past three" (or similar).

You could always claim to be running on Doctor Who time- wibbly wobbly timey-wimey....

Les

[LASteve]

... the late Graham Smith's reaction when told by a punter he should be running Moorcock Junction to a timetable.  He got all the operators to stop and sit down with the comment "the next train isn't due until half-past three" ...

Wonderful!