How is the N gauge market doing?

[Dorsetmike]

As Leon says Union Mills has it about right, for the perfectionist rivet counters it's not impossible to add your own detail, some of us have been doing it since the 1970s (I started N in '74) omce you have a good basic shape to work with then adding vac pipes, brake hangers and pipework etc can be done to suit personal requirements, there are several sellers of such bits and pieces, Nbrass & BHE, among others, it might keep costs down.
Are we modellers or collectors?
For me at least half the point of model railways is the work one can do oneself, not just Metcalfe and Scalescenes buildings and scenic work, but what I would class as model engineering. I probably buy more "pre owned" and "Spares or repair" than new

[Newportnobby]

Oh Gawd - here we go again

[Paddy]

i returned to n gauge 2 years ago..after a 20 year hiatus.  most of my purchases have been " pre-owned " ( ugh--who invented that phrase ), from ebay and the facebook sales pages.  ive noticed recently bids on ebay have gone way beyond what i would consider paying.  a sign of a buoyant market ?---and facebook items for sale are also priced beyond what i will pay--and they sell.

Hi @Bigmac

There is a buoyant market for British N gauge models but my concern is how big is that market.  Demand may outstrip supply but that is not the same as a market big enough to sustain mass production.

Take one example, the Poole Farish Pullman coaches.  They are very popular and sell well on a certain internet sale room.  Often these coaches go for what could be considered "silly" money given they are crude (by today's standards) and not even a model of a real prototype.

One might think that it would be worth Bachmann running off a new batch?  (Assuming tooling is still useable).  But is there are a market for another few hundred of these?  Would people pay £20-30 for a new run model?  May be but it is a gamble.

I fear British N gauge may fall below critical mass where the market demand is simply not sufficient to support large enough batches.  There will be the exceptional "must have" model but it worries me.

Kind regards

Paddy

[Paddy]

A decent set of instructions wouldn't do any harm whatsoever and wouldn't cost much or take much effort to produce.  Not everyone has the knowledge of how to take a loco apart to fit a chip.  I Know I don't, especially when the instructions bear no semblance whatsoever to the loco you've shelled out your hard earned dish for.

I think you misunderstood my statement about collecting 'sheds'.
What I was trying to say was, it doesn't encourage newcomers to the hobby to find that their favourite locos are only available second hand or old tooling.  You say Dapol made 2 versions etc. but I'm talking about today not the dim and distant past.

If manufacturers want to encourage new blood to the hobby irrespective of their age, why don't they produce more well known examples such as Evening Star or Blue Peter for example?  It's safe and familiar ground for those considering entering the hobby.
I'd like to buy better known named locos, but I don't want to buy 40 year old Minitrix locos or pizza cutter Poole era Farish models.

We are contemplating moving house in the next couple of years and when we do come to move I'll be seriously considering ditching N Gauge for a gauge that's more forgiving, less expensive, reliable and more readily available  - not too sure what scale as it depends upon the house we move to.

As far as the second paragraph goes I think it rules out everything but Brio

As to the first, Dapol made 2 versions of the 2-10-0 Evening Star - ND-090 in green and 2D-013-003 in weathered black along with a class 66 of the same name if 'Sheds' are your bag 2D-007-005. Farish 372-388 was their Blue Peter in green.
Of course, many models need to be snapped up when released or the second hand market is what's left

Hi @Mike Hamilton

If you get tempted by one an early Dapol 9F Evening Star a word of caution.  I bought one when it was released and it was awful.  The model had to be replaced and eventually the replacement was sent back to Dapol for repair.  The build quality and finish is abysmal although from a distance it does look like a 9F.

Seriously, if you want a 2-10-0 that you can run, will pull a train and is robust then you will have more success with the Minitrix version from the 1970s.

Obviously, others mileage may vary.

Kind regards

Paddy

[LASteve]

I think the question from the OP is answered subjectively - if you are modelling an era or geography which is well-served by commercial ready-to-run models, then you would probably say that the market is doing just fine. You do see manufacturers doubling- and tripling-down on successful models - the CL66 and the CL33 spring to mind. I'm actually quite surprised how popular the 33's are considering they didn't have either the cachet or the numbers when they were in service. Of course, they were exceptionally adaptable and could often be seen way off network and probably got a reputation at the time of being an "exotic" sighting outside the Southern Region.

If you're interested in or drawn to a less-popular region or era, then you might be a little frustrated with the lack of options - for me (Clive), I'd love to see a 4-VEP, a 4-TC set, the Hampshire diesels, a 2-EPB but realistically I know there's nowhere near enough wider demand to justify the tooling and production expense. I have a fantastic "CR Signals" Dapol CL33 and I was a little surprised that in the bag 'o' bits there was a pair of snowploughs, but no pneumatic hoses to customise the model when almost a third of the class were capable of push-pull operation with the 4-TC sets.

The gap between pipeline announcements and deliveries to retail can be frustrating - I've had a Gaugemaster CL73 on pre-order for so long that I've almost forgotten about it. On the plus side, when these models finally are released, you get quite a buzz!

On the other side of the coin, I enjoy the sleuthing to track down out-of-production items; obviously from eBay, but also other sources, not least the members of this forum. As in any after-market, there are some desirable items which attract a sometimes not-insignificant markup, but equally I've found some true bargains. It's a part of the hobby which I find very entertaining - I get as much pleasure out of "winning" an Esso/BP 14T tank wagon as I do from getting my hands on a brand-new-in-box loco. Unearthing an older "treasure" which has never been out of the box and giving it the light of day is a great moment.

If only judging by the second-hand activity, I'd say that the market is alive and well.

There have been some interesting points raised on this thread, a couple I'd like to touch on. The idea of creating TV/Movie content that somehow drives demand for models I'm not sure stands up to too much scrutiny. Yes, Thomas is an ongoing phenomenon, which when you think about it, is quite extraordinary, but it's not a genre you can easily replicate. For realistic content, I don't know the numbers from retail of the Harry Potter "Hogwarts Express", but I think that Hornby might admit to being a little disappointed that one of the most successful and internationally-recognized movie franchises ever didn't translate into more sales.

The second point is the age demographic of those active in the hobby. Points have been well-made about the fact that as we get older, we get more time, more space and more money to allow us to develop our own layouts and collections. If there is a desire to get more young people involved in the hobby, then we need to remove the barriers to entry (cost and space) and here the local clubs can play an enormously-valuable part. But we need to embrace new ideas - fantasy and steampunk springs to mind - and to allow new members or new guests the opportunity to drive or operate the club layouts. I recall a thread from a couple of years ago whereby younger volunteers on heritage railways were frustrated that they had to serve an "apprenticeship" of 20 years or so polishing engines and scraping rust off restoration projects before they were allowed anywhere near a footplate or a signal box. Why would you invest that amount of time into a volunteer hobby before you get to try the fun stuff? I'm not saying that any of our clubs are like that, but we probably need to make sure that we don't fall into the trap of eschewing anything that's not prototypical or "what we like".

But back to the original question. I think if you go into the N-gauge world with your eyes open that you're not going to be able to have one of that, one of those, three of the other and a case of that off the retail shelf when the fancy takes you, then you're going to thoroughly enjoy yourself. If, on the other hand, you want to lay some track, plant some locos and buildings and run according to what you want to see, you might find things a little less enjoyable.

Horses for courses and all that. Personally, when I came into this hobby a few years ago, I had no idea that most of what I had in my mind simply wasn't available at retail. Instead of getting frustrated, as I said, I developed a real enjoyment around tracking stuff down.

I've not really had my fingers burned on eBay - I have a CL23 that won't move, but it was working just fine when I took delivery of it and I ran it for maybe 500 scale miles, so I can't really fault the seller on not having a crystal ball. I'll figure it out. My bargain Deltic prototype had a split gear, so perhaps that might have been something the seller should have known, but it didn't cause me any upset. I've NEVER had my fingers burned, or even sightly warmed, by the fine people on this forum that I've traded with.

So a long and rambling answer to the OP's question. I think the market is fine, and judging by the number of "hellos" that we send out to new members announcing themselves on the forum new interest continues to develop - maybe offset by attrition but still an encouraging sign. Sure, I'd like to see more pre-TOPS SR models coming to market, but that's just me and my own niche.

Happy to be here!

[Leon]

I went back and read my posts in this thread. They contributed nothing, really! Obviously, I'm not in step with most for I'm unable to understand a hobby where people pledge their money for products that MAY be produced months from now. Perhaps that gives the manufacturer an incentive to bring the product to market, but I can't understand buying something that is untested. It's not a fair analogy, I know, but how many of us would order an automobile in advance of production? As to the thread question, I think N gauge is doing as well as can be expected for models too small for children AND older adults. Both ends of the market are crucial for a healthy industry, in my estimation.

I promise to shut up and listen!

Leon

[LASteve]

It's not a fair analogy, I know, but how many of us would order an automobile in advance of production?

Not me, nor maybe us, but ask any owner of a Tesla, and you'll get a 100% response - "I did". You can't walk into a Tesla showroom and drive one away (I'm not even sure there are any Tesla showrooms anyway). You pre-order, pay a deposit (refundable) and wait your turn.

[Newportnobby]

Obviously, I'm not in step with most for I'm unable to understand a hobby where people pledge their money for products that MAY be produced months from now.

Because, putting it simply, that is often the only way to get that certain model. Providing you can be assured any monies will be refunded if the project does not go ahead, I have absolutely no issues with pre payment although prefer it (like the RevolutioN method) of making a half payment up front with balance on despatch to me. For far too long we have been locked into the Farish/Dapol 'you'll get what we offer you and not what you want' way of operating and it is so refreshing now to have others willing to listen to the market and come up with models their customer base wants. That, and purely that, is why I think the N gauge market is currently in a good position

[Bealman]

Geez, you're up early, Mick 

[PLD]

With regard to "continuous supply", I think of it like this...

20 years ago, if you wanted an LMS 4-6-0, you were fairly certain that if you walked in to any model shop there would be one on the shelf - It would be a Black 5 numbered 5041 and that was it...

Now, you have three choices - Black 5, Jubilee & Royal Scot. They may not be continuously available but 90% of the time, 90% of shops will have at least one of the 3 in stock, and each time they restock the running number has changed, saving you the effort of renumbering!

If you wanted a continuous supply of identical locos the old days were better. If you want prototypical variety in you fleet, surely the present is better...

[Chris Morris]

As to the thread question, I think N gauge is doing as well as can be expected for models too small for children AND older adults.

Leon

Nobody has told me (65) or my 4 year old grandson that N gauge is too small for us. Luckily we both seem to be getting on fine with N gauge at the moment. I use  one of those magnifying lights when working on anything and grandson understands they are delicate and need careful handling. He is currently getting to grips with the brake simulator on my Gaugemaster controller.

[njee20]

Yes, I have to say I'm constantly amazed by the dexterity of my 3 year old when it comes to putting stock on! Present rake is a 66 with sixteen MJA hoppers. He's even got used to Dapol's limp couplings, and often says "daddy, this coupling needs some special glue" (Tacky Wax).

[Bob G]

I had a Triang clockwork set at age 3 and broke the track, but ran it on the carpet anyway.
But by the time I got a Playcraft HO set at age 4, I knew it was all wrong, and couldn't wait to get a Triang set at age 5.

This from the same child that when asked if he wanted a younger brother or sister, simply replied "but what about my inheritance!"

Bob

[Railwaygun]

I think the membership of this group will be very similar to that of the NGS, but that's not much use when trying to encourage new people into the hobby. The whole point of a Thomas range is to encourage 'new blood', and for that it's irrelevant what the current demographic looks like.

I'd personally say, with the ubiquity of Thomas the Tank Engine, any 'rival' series, particularly if produced with the express intention of driving sales of N gauge models would be a total flop. I've never seen anything associated with the Railway Children, TTTE is a bit of juggernaut in this respect.

Also, whilst the 'Thomas' market is huge, I'm not sure there's much overlap between N gauge modelling and the key Thomas demographic, which is probably under 8 (ish, that's a bit arbitrary). I think the key markets for Thomas (and equivalents) remains the toy market - wooden trains and the like. I'm not sure I'd expect to see a manufacturer really growing their segment from investing in a Thomas line.

the Tomix N  gauge Thomas sets go like hot cakes!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/6013812145

and just look at s/h prices

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313&_nkw=thomas&_sacat=19119

Bachmann  only need to order 500, (providing they are allowed to produce N models)!

[njee20]

Yes and no. They're comparatively rare, which means they command a high price, which isn't the same thing.

Yeah ok 500 will probably sell, but that hardly strikes me as a glowing success for something known globally. If they produced 10,000 would they all fly off the shelves?

My point is that I'm not sure you'll encourage people into N gauge with a range of TTTE.