R.I.P. Sterling Moss

[Newportnobby]

One of the greatest British racing drivers has gone to the circuit in the sky

[GroupC]

Very sad indeed, one of the greats from what is now a completely bygone era.

Thanks so much Stirling for entertaining and exciting me, enjoy the champagne and chequered flags as you look down on us all.

[exmouthcraig]

Sad day  :'(

He did remarkably well to survive through his motorsport days to go on to a very respectable 90 years old.

A true gent of World Motorsport!! Another gentleman gone!!,

A great tribute paid by his wife

RIP Sir Stirling Moss.

[NeMo]

A true gent of World Motorsport!! Another gentleman gone!!,

So long as you weren't a woman or gay, yes.

I think sometimes we should be careful to recognise the difference between a gentleman (who treats all people equally) and someone who is simply a man of his time (which may have some charming, even positive attributes, but also some that society has, thankfully, left in the past).

Cheers, NeMo

[exmouthcraig]

So were not allowed to think of him as a gentleman because you say hes said or done something that's offended someone???

You seem to have to make YOUR point of view THE point of view.

He was a man of a different time. THATS LIFE but just because he was brought up in a different period doesnt mean he was not a nice bloke!!!!

THIS IS JUST ANOTHER CASE OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD. Theres FAR TOO MANY people now looking to find offence in ANYTHING any one says!!!

[Paddy]

Until @NeMo posted I did not realise that Sir Stirling Moss (SSM) was shrouded in any controversy.    Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the events that @NeMo refers to are:

1. When SSM stated he did not want a gay person to play him in a film about his life.  Now to be fair, SSM did use a rather old fashioned (1970s) and offensive term but as his later apology indicated he meant no actual offence.  If a person apologises and means it then that is good enough for me.  One also has to remember that SSM will have spent most of his life in a very male dominated, macho environment of motor racing and cars.  Who remembers the Pirelli tyre calendars on the walls of garages etc.

2. When SSM stated that he did not believe women had the mental capability to compete in F1.  Surprisingly, SSM said that he thought they had the physical strength though.  On this one, I think he had it the wrong way around as I cannot see any reason why "the ladies" (sorry couldn't resits  ) would have any problems dealing with the mental demands of F1 racing but the physical side may be more of a challenge.  A few laps is one thing but the physical demands of an entire F1 race may prove challenging for a women although I am willing to accept there could be exceptions.  I would also love to be proved wrong.

As @exmouthcraig said, SSM was a man of a different time and I am not sure it is fair to judge him against current standards which are more "enlightened" if that is a good word to use.  Plus liberal views are not universally held even within the categories mentioned above.  The world is not black and white (oops) but rather many shades of grey - the key in my view is to embrace our commonality and to engage in respectful, non judgmental debate where we do not.

A bit like the NGF! 

Kind regards

Paddy

[emjaybee]

My wife looked after him a number of times when he passed through Heathrow on BA and she said he was a perfect gentleman and very respectful to all he encountered.

A great man, great driver, great personality. Given the era he drove in, with the lower safety standards and much more volatile fuels and oils it's remarkable that he survived without perishing in a crash or succumbing to cancer caused by the inhalation of toxic fumes.

[exmouthcraig]

If he was a normal 90 year old bloke Paddy say like NeMos father or grandfather non of those comments would of been documented.

So if NeMos said father or grandfather died at 90 years old HE would believe them to be gentlemen, even though they were brought up in the same time period as Sir Stirling so would he stand at the front of a packed church, hand on their coffin stating 'he can not be called a gentleman because he made a comment about a gay man and that his wife was meant to be at home looking after the house (which I dont believe Sir Stirling ever said but NeMos mother or grandmother would be of that age where that was the norm and the working man's thinking)

What NeMo needs to remember is this is the N GAUGE FORUM of which we all contribute too NOT the N GAUGE SOCIETY JOURNAL  of which he dictates what gets written and presumably has to put an apology against EVERYTHING said by any other then himself as clearly HIS point of view and beliefs are correct!!!

[Paddy]

Hi @exmouthcraig,

I know what you mean, my Mum (96 years old) comes out with some things which make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up!  For example, Mum is not too keen on female Doctors and the idea of lady pilots is a complete non-starter. 

Having said that, Mum is very polite and genuine to everyone she meets - it is simply how she was brought up.  Is it right?  Not by today's "standards" but Mum genuinely means no offence.

May be on Easter Sunday one could sum it up by... "let him who is without sin cast the first stone".  Jesus, John 8:7.

or for those offended by religion: 

"A beer for the gentlemen, and a wine or fruit-based drink for the ladies. Those are the rules. Where would we be if we didn't have any rules?" Pub Landlord (Al Murray).

Kind regards

Paddy

[Newportnobby]

Whoa! He's probably looking down on this and thinking "WTF?" (well, maybe)
He was a man of his times and it was what it was. Comparisons between those days and current times are just not possible.
Please - leave the guy alone and let him have some well deserved rest.

[NeMo]

If he was a normal 90 year old bloke Paddy say like NeMos father or grandfather non of those comments would of been documented.

So if NeMos said father or grandfather died at 90 years old HE would believe them to be gentlemen, even though they were brought up in the same time period as Sir Stirling so would he stand at the front of a packed church, hand on their coffin stating 'he can not be called a gentleman because he made a comment about a gay man and that his wife was meant to be at home looking after the house (which I dont believe Sir Stirling ever said but NeMos mother or grandmother would be of that age where that was the norm and the working man's thinking)

I didn't say that. I simply posted one line to reference the fact that there were many people, even contemporaries of Mr Moss, who didn't view him with unalloyed adoration. My dad, funnily enough, was one of them. There were drivers he did look up to, Fangio for one, and quite a bit later, Hunt, with whom his employer worked quite extensively. But if Moss was ever mentioned, my dad would get tetchy.

Look, my grandfather would refer to one of my parents friends as a 'Jewess' and would quite happily use the 'N' word at times. For him, "women's lib" was about uppity women who didn't understand how the world worked. He didn't mean any harm by any of this; he was an Army officer, served during WW2, and remained in the Army until her retired in the 70s, having worked with all sorts of people all around the world. But at the same time, much as I loved the man and respected him, I also accept his standards aren't mine. Doesn't mean he's diminished in any way, but rather than he was, as you say, a man of his time.

What NeMo needs to remember is this is the N GAUGE FORUM of which we all contribute too NOT the N GAUGE SOCIETY JOURNAL  of which he dictates what gets written and presumably has to put an apology against EVERYTHING said by any other then himself as clearly HIS point of view and beliefs are correct!!!

If you think the NGS Journal is by bully pulpit, you haven't been paying attention. I write hardly anything, and at most, in response to another member's letter, I may throw in an opposing argument, usually to defend the subject of the letter. It's a thankless task for the most part, which you might want to bear in mind.

The NGF is a place to share opinions, I totally get that -- all I said, I think maybe too bluntly, but not inaccurately, was that Moss was not a perfect gentleman, but a gentleman by the standards of the time -- which have, I hope, moved on.

Cheers, NeMo

[exmouthcraig]

Oh yes James Hunt, the model man!!!

Never drank
Never smoked
Married his childhood sweetheart and never said a bad word about anyone or anything
I can see how he never offended anyone!!!

As for your 'thankless task' I can imagine it is but oddly that's like ke sitting here telling you lambing takes 20hrs of every 24 for 5 weeks. It's of no relevance. WE choose to do what we do. I'm just disappointed that my NGS membership has just renewed!!!,

But at the end of the day NeMo like you said the other day 'those of us with big layouts are just cheque book modellers and have no place in the NGS so I wont be missed.

[Papyrus]

It's a pity what started out as a tribute to a superb racing driver has descended into a slanging match.

All I would like to add is that none of us is without character flaws. Some of the greatest, most influential people in history (Martin Luther King, Winston Churchill, Florence Nightingale, Henry VIII, Mahatma Gandhi, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Sir Isaac Newton...) don't bear too much in-depth scrutiny of their lives and private thoughts.

Let the man rest in peace.

Chris

[honestjudge]

Happy easter everyone!

[guest311]

just let me check ....

slit trench dug - yes
steel helmet on - yes
respirator on - yes

anyone up for a rerun of Alf Garnett