Class 50, Class 59, prototype HST, Battle of Britain will be shelved for now

[PLD]

Just been informed by Hattons that the Dapol J72 production has been cancelled. 

The J72 was put on hold in June last year and was only going to be looked at again after the development of the Class 50,59,68 & BoB

https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/steam/j72/915-j72

I think we all sussed when Farrish announced theirs that whichever wasn't first to market would be dropped...

In this case though, is it official from Dapol that it is cancelled or is it Hattons assuming or admin 'male chicken' (changed by forum)-up?? The do have previous form on that...

[N-Gauge-US]

Just been informed by Hattons that the Dapol J72 production has been cancelled. 

The J72 was put on hold in June last year and was only going to be looked at again after the development of the Class 50,59,68 & BoB

https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/steam/j72/915-j72

I think we all sussed when Farrish announced theirs that whichever wasn't first to market would be dropped...

In this case though, is it official from Dapol that it is cancelled or is it Hattons assuming or admin 'male chicken' (changed by forum)-up?? The do have previous form on that...

When I asked Joel about it a few months ago, his reply was that, while not officially canceled, it was shelved after Farish announced it as well. The assumption was that Farish could bring it to market first (ha!). He said they would look at it again, but I'm guessing they officially canceled when they made the decision to cut other proposed classes which they were pushing forward with. Personally, I think this is a shame as Dapol could certainly have gotten it to market first, judging by Farish's 'progress' and I'd have liked an NER one! I don't think Farish are in any grand hurry with theirs, as it didn't make the list of announced items this year and there has been no update on it or it's potential delivery from Farish since its announcement.

[Les1952]

Just been informed by Hattons that the Dapol J72 production has been cancelled. 

The J72 was put on hold in June last year and was only going to be looked at again after the development of the Class 50,59,68 & BoB

https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/steam/j72/915-j72

I think we all sussed when Farrish announced theirs that whichever wasn't first to market would be dropped...

In this case though, is it official from Dapol that it is cancelled or is it Hattons assuming or admin Large Chicken -up?? The do have previous form on that...

When I asked Joel about it a few months ago, his reply was that, while not officially canceled, it was shelved after Farish announced it as well. The assumption was that Farish could bring it to market first (ha!). He said they would look at it again, but I'm guessing they officially canceled when they made the decision to cut other proposed classes which they were pushing forward with. Personally, I think this is a shame as Dapol could certainly have gotten it to market first, judging by Farish's 'progress' and I'd have liked an NER one! I don't think Farish are in any grand hurry with theirs, as it didn't make the list of announced items this year and there has been no update on it or it's potential delivery from Farish since its announcement.

This looks like the story of the Ivatt 2MT all over again.  Dapol announced theirs.  Farish then announced one and Dapol shelved theirs.  Farish then took half a decade to get round to actually doing theirs...

This was also part of the reason why there has been reluctance to cancel competing projects by quite a few manufacturers since then - a common impression was that Dapol were "done rotten"....

Les

Edited because I dropped the reply in the wrong part of the post...

[Smiffy]

Hi,

Some development notes from the Dapol Website (under Technical \ Product Development \ N Gauge):

Class 142 - Awaiting Decorated Samples - Completion end of Q2

Class 68 - In tooling awaiting 1st shots mid Q2

HIA Hopper Wagon - going in to tooling May'17 - Completion end of Q3

MJA bogie box twin - on hold until after the HIA comes to market


Would be nice to see a progress chart similar to the one DJM has on his website so we can see what steps remain to be completed as well as what has been done.


Best regards

Iain

[njee20]

Awesome, pleased about the HIAs and hopefully the MJAs. I wonder if they'll increase the RRP on the HIAs given their staggering popularity in OO.

[jacowin80]

Hi,

Some development notes from the Dapol Website (under Technical \ Product Development \ N Gauge):

Class 142 - Awaiting Decorated Samples - Completion end of Q2

Class 68 - In tooling awaiting 1st shots mid Q2

HIA Hopper Wagon - going in to tooling May'17 - Completion end of Q3

MJA bogie box twin - on hold until after the HIA comes to market


Would be nice to see a progress chart similar to the one DJM has on his website so we can see what steps remain to be completed as well as what has been done.


Best regards

Iain

I have been looking forward to the 142 and after reading the cancelations news over the weekend decided to look into where in the scheme of things progress was.  It seems they have been waiting for the decorated samples for quite some time.  Before Christmas I think, maybe the decorators are making sure they have the prints lined up properly unlike the oo class 68!

[koyli55002]

Browsing Dapol's website and the comments on there with regards to the recent announcement, I see that a suggestion for future N gauge models to be crowdfunded was summarily dismissed ?

[Smiffy]

Browsing Dapol's website and the comments on there with regards to the recent announcement, I see that a suggestion for future N gauge models to be crowdfunded was summarily dismissed ?

I can't blame Dapol for avoiding taking money up front by any method - can you imagine the fireworks if they missed a deadline!   


Regards

Iain

[koyli55002]

Maybe so, but that still leaves me wondering where we as a fraternity stand with regards to future N gauge models.
Basically, most of the proposed new releases from Dapol have been unofficially "on hold" for years - this recent announcement just makes it official.
As I understand it, only those whose development had got to the tooling stage or beyond are to continue whilst the rest are "on abeyance until the economic conditions become more favourable" (if /whenever that may be ?).
At the same time, the inference of "jam tomorrow" by stating that the projects are on hold rather than cancelled means that any potential developer of these models has their feet nailed to the starting blocks by the fear that they may be "gazumped" ?

[woodbury22uk]

At the same time, the inference of "jam tomorrow" by stating that the projects are on hold rather than cancelled means that any potential developer of these models has their feet nailed to the starting blocks by the fear that they may be "gazumped" ?

What possible credibility would Dapol have if someone came along tomorrow with a ready-to-tool Class 50, and Dapol suddenly found the funds to tool theirs? Dapol have "paused" their development for lack of a suitable return on their limited funds, but they claim to have put a lot of thought in to this. A change of understanding overnight would undermine the whole of what they explained last Friday.The bigger question is whether, at 2017/2018 prices, enough of the world would beat a path to the door of whoever proposes a Class 50.

I suspect that the weak response to the HSDT online survey has convinced Dapol that the internet does not cast the net wide enough to capture sufficient interested people. Given the negative responses we see to their management of their own Collectors Club, taking funds in advance against a promise of delivery is not their forté, which really rules out them managing a crowd-funded project.

[davidinyork]

I suspect that the weak response to the HSDT online survey has convinced Dapol that the internet does not cast the net wide enough to capture sufficient interested people.

While the model will be of limited interest, the way they did the expression of interest was hopeless. The initial offer was a complete set either with yellow panel or full yellow cab, which indicated a lack of research - the full yellow cabs only seem to have appeared when the power cars were in test use, after the full train had been disbanded - i.e. there would never have been an occasion when they worked with the full train.

They then later proposed doing power cars and coach packs.

With something like that, for an expression of interest to give anything approaching a reliable indication of likely demand the basic research and decisions on what to offer need to be made before going public with it.

[davidinyork]

I can't blame Dapol for avoiding taking money up front by any method - can you imagine the fireworks if they missed a deadline!   

Don't set deadlines then - as seems to be the case with the Revolution Pendolino. They want to get it right, and it's ready when it's ready. Provided there are regular updates about where in the process it is so that purchasers can see that it is in progress, and there aren't large delays between design and production, I can't see anyone having an issue with not having a specific deadline.

[Smiffy]

I can't blame Dapol for avoiding taking money up front by any method - can you imagine the fireworks if they missed a deadline!   

Don't set deadlines then - as seems to be the case with the Revolution Pendolino. They want to get it right, and it's ready when it's ready. Provided there are regular updates about where in the process it is so that purchasers can see that it is in progress, and there aren't large delays between design and production, I can't see anyone having an issue with not having a specific deadline.

I disagree, unfortunately Dapol have a reputation for not communicating whereas Mike and Ben have worked very hard to keep us updated - and they still had comments fired at them because of the delays even though they clearly said the Pendolino would only come out when they were happy with it.

A more likely, but still I'd put money against it happening, is that someone decides Dapol are wrong and gets one of theses to tooling before announcing. Dapol have only invested in CADs and so would be very unlikely to reprioritise and go head to head.

[Adam1701D]

Still think it seems foolish to drop the Class 50, as only two bodyshell variations (original and refurbished) are needed to allow a plethora of liveries that would keep a manufacturer in repeat business for years!

I can understand some reluctance to take on the Bulleid Light Pacifics - I'm not an expert on these but there seems to be an almost infinite variety of cab and tender styles (happy to be corrected) , so it would be hard to please everybody without massive tooling costs. A real pity, as these are probably the most needed steam locos in N.

[koyli55002]

Still think it seems foolish to drop the Class 50, as only two bodyshell variations (original and refurbished) are needed to allow a plethora of liveries that would keep a manufacturer in repeat business for years!

I can understand some reluctance to take on the Bulleid Light Pacifics - I'm not an expert on these but there seems to be an almost infinite variety of cab and tender styles (happy to be corrected) , so it would be hard to please everybody without massive tooling costs. A real pity, as these are probably the most needed steam locos in N.

SECONDED !
Mindst you, they are still sticking by their statement that the project has not been dropped "per se" - just deferred.........
For another decade or so ?