Buying secondhand locos

[Snowwolflair]

Oh they are fragile and must be carefully handled.

The times I have seen a Dapol loco carelessly lifted by the tender, the cardan comes out and the body twists breaking a wire, that's bad handling not bad design.  Same goes for the Schools with the loco being picked up by squeezing the valve gear.

In my opinion if a loco needs excessively careful handling to prevent damage or malfunction then that is poor, not good design.
I've had two Dapol locos replaced  because of broken wires out of the box. I also bought an A4 where the cardan shaft had fallen. Inside the loco, again a brand new loco straight out of the box. Had to dismantle it to put things in order!!

Of course this is all a bit off the second loco thread now. Apologies...

Yes exactly, badly built and lousy QA, assuming no one had previously had it out of the box.  As far as careful handling, I'm happy to sacrifice fragility for detail.  If you want bomb proof the buy old Farish and Union Mills.  Also Kato is built for children and although looking good to our eyes are seriously suspect on detail, being sacrificed for functionality.

[Snowwolflair]

No they went back to Dapol for them to sell as A,B,C or D category rubbish.

Just as good, I bought four C and D ones from DCC supplies at the Wycombe show a few weeks ago total £53 and I had them all fixed in an hour except the Class 86 that needed a new PCB.   

[Dr Al]

No they went back to Dapol for them to sell as A,B,C or D category rubbish.

Just as good, I bought four C and D ones from DCC supplies at the Wycombe show a few weeks ago total £53 and I had them all fixed in an hour except the Class 86 that needed a new PCB.   

I think the fact that Dapol sell seemingly *vast* quantities of reject or returned stock says a lot.....

Cheers,
Alan

[daffy]

Also Kato is built for children.......

Ah, to be forever young in my retirement.

[silly moo]

Then I probably bought one,    it's fine though.

I do agree that Dapol locos are rather fragile especially the 9F which looks exquisite but has all sorts of delicate bits that can damaged. It's a very good representation of the actual loco but not really a practical model.

[railsquid]

Also Kato is built for children.......

Ah, to be forever young in my retirement.

I think Snowwolflair must be talking about the Kato Pocketline range.

[Claude Dreyfus]

Also Kato is built for children.......

Ah, to be forever young in my retirement.

I think Snowwolflair must be talking about the Kato Pocketline range.

I rather hope so, because otherwise that statement is total rubbish!

[Snowwolflair]

You need to look at the Kato philosophy.  They design to be robust and if you put them up against drawings and photographs of the real thing you quickly see where the design compromises are.

I'm not knocking them, I use their mechanisms to motorise hand made models but I recognise them for what they are.  NB there are much better finer scale less toy looking Japanese manufacturers at a significantly higher price.

Dapol need to stick to their knitting and sort out their factory and it's QA and I would hate them to dumb down their offering due to cat calls from the audience.

[austinbob]

I don't think the 'audience' are making cat calls. They are expressing genuine dissatisfaction with some of Dapols offerings and there's very little point in having a beautifully detailed model if it doesn't  work when you use it!!
Nothing wrong with a bit less detail anyway. You can't see the fine detail under normal running conditions.
More important is the loco should have the essence of the prototype rather than infinite accuracy in my opinion.

[daffy]

Just a thought or two from my fence....

If Dapol are making to a price point rather than focusing on quality in design, manufacture and build then perhaps that might be the root of their issues. Quality Control can be the first thing to suffer when too stringent economies are being applied.

European manufacturers such as Fleischmann, Marklin, Bemo and Roco have good reputations for build quality that is reflected in their pricing. Okay, the overall issue is not that simple of course, but I still think the point is relevant.

That @Snowwolflair and others can buy cheap rejects to their advantage is hardly a sparkling  testimonial for the management at Dapol.

[Claude Dreyfus]

I would be interested to know examples, aside from the aforementioned Pocket Line range.

Whilst there are manufacturers in Japan who make high-end models (World Craft for example), Kato cannot be dismissed as built for children. Kato  make no more compromises than any other major manufacturer when it comes to prototypical fidelity (with the track gauge being perhaps the most significant, but then again, so do Farish, Dapol et al).

They do produce some basic models for budget modellers (which I am sure many UK modellers wish UK manufacturers could also do) but many of these tend to be very old mouldings which are not up to current standards of detail. At least they have the decency to sell these at a much lower price as opposed to selling models with 30 year old tooling at top whack prices! Indeed some of their models far exceed anything produced in the UK, even the continent. Their JR East D51 steam locomotive, and many of their US offerings, are very much 'adult' models in terms of detail and performance.

The Unitrack system  and Diotown range is designed for the constraints experienced by many in Japan (plenty in the UK have space constraints also), but less so their range of trains; which are well designed and well built.

[Snowwolflair]

I don't think the 'audience' are making cat calls. They are expressing genuine dissatisfaction with some of Dapols offerings and there's very little point in having a beautifully detailed model if it doesn't  work when you use it!!
Nothing wrong with a bit less detail anyway. You can't see the fine detail under normal running conditions.
More important is the loco should have the essence of the prototype rather than infinite accuracy in my opinion.

If they never worked due to bad design I would agree but they do work and they work well if they are assembled correctly and handled carefully.

[Snowwolflair]

I would be interested to know examples, aside from the aforementioned Pocket Line range.

Whilst there are manufacturers in Japan who make high-end models (World Craft for example), Kato cannot be dismissed as built for children. Kato  make no more compromises than any other major manufacturer when it comes to prototypical fidelity (with the track gauge being perhaps the most significant, but then again, so do Farish, Dapol et al).

They do produce some basic models for budget modellers (which I am sure many UK modellers wish UK manufacturers could also do) but many of these tend to be very old mouldings which are not up to current standards of detail. At least they have the decency to sell these at a much lower price as opposed to selling models with 30 year old tooling at top whack prices! Indeed some of their models far exceed anything produced in the UK, even the continent. Their JR East D51 steam locomotive, and many of their US offerings, are very much 'adult' models in terms of detail and performance.

The Unitrack system  and Diotown range is designed for the constraints experienced by many in Japan (plenty in the UK have space constraints also), but less so their range of trains; which are well designed and well built.

To be clear by "built for children" I mean the robustness of design, not that the market target is children.

As far as simplified (less breakable detail) Here are three photos, a real loco, a Kato rendering and an Brass casting high spec model by Overland.  The Overland model is at least ten times the price and deserves to be handled with ten times the care.

the Kato one clearly looks like a toy in comparison to the overland model.

[Snowwolflair]

Farish Hall vs Dapol Hall  really no contest.

[austinbob]

Farish Hall vs Dapol Hall  really no contest.

Unless the Dapol loco doesn't work!