Should we run prototypical trains?

[Big bad John]

I know virtually nothing about liveries apart from some dates I read on wiki about changes. Following this thread is confusing me now. I will be starting a new layout after crimbo set around 1960/63 western region I had thought that I would get all mk1s in maroon. Now the question is would crimson/cream and chocolate/cream liveries still be around at that time on the western region and would It be only mk1s or would there be other types of coaching stock from earlier days. Sorry for what may seem draft questions but I only took interest in Railways this year so are very much in my infancy on the learning scale.

[railsquid]

I know virtually nothing about liveries apart from some dates I read on wiki about changes. Following this thread is confusing me now. I will be starting a new layout after crimbo set around 1960/63 western region I had thought that I would get all mk1s in maroon. Now the question is would crimson/cream and chocolate/cream liveries still be around at that time on the western region and would It be only mk1s or would there be other types of coaching stock from earlier days. Sorry for what may seem draft questions but I only took interest in Railways this year so are very much in my infancy on the learning scale.

Probably best to start a new thread with a specific question, particularly with details of the region you want to model... I'm not an expert, but I imagine in that period you'd certainly see some pre-nationalisation stock about, e.g. Hawksworth and Stanier coaches, ex-GWR B sets, autotrailers and the like, possibly even the odd Gresley buffet. Try checking Youtube for films from your chosen era/region, and Google Images.

[Chris Morris]

Your right if I ran my layout at exhibitions more prototypically it would just be a procession of 4F and Black 5's I would love it but the viewers would get bored far quicker than they normally do

Likewise - mine would be an endless stream of Westerns, Warships, Hymeks, Class 22s and a 14!
An occasional Duff 4 perhaps, but that would be it - sheer heaven to many, a bit dull to others.

My layout is an endless stream of Westerns, Warships, Hymeks and class 22s with a brush type 4. I have a few Western Region kettles as well. I don't see how that can be dull to anyone!

[Chris Morris]

I know virtually nothing about liveries apart from some dates I read on wiki about changes. Following this thread is confusing me now. I will be starting a new layout after crimbo set around 1960/63 western region I had thought that I would get all mk1s in maroon. Now the question is would crimson/cream and chocolate/cream liveries still be around at that time on the western region and would It be only mk1s or would there be other types of coaching stock from earlier days. Sorry for what may seem draft questions but I only took interest in Railways this year so are very much in my infancy on the learning scale.

In the early 60s there were plenty of pre nationalisation coaches around and being hauled by diesels. There would not be rakes of crimson and cream by then but just the odd one or two in amongst a rake of maroon. In 1960 the named expresses on the WR used chocolate and cream rakes. These were broken up in the early sixties because the people in charge of BR thought the WR was trying to go back to being GWR.

[njee20]

I don't see how that can be dull to anyone!

Unless your interests lie in post-privitisation! Still, you'll never please everyone!

[Big bad John]

Thanks Railsquid and Chris Morris.
I think I'll stick with mainly maroon and just get the odd other liveries if I find a bargain. I'll invoke rule one anyway but didn't want to go ridiculous with It.

[Chris Morris]

I don't see how that can be dull to anyone!

Unless your interests lie in post-privitisation! Still, you'll never please everyone!

Although both of these comments were made with a smile it comes back to the reason for starting the thread. While I will run whatever I like at home I think it is important at an exhibition to run trains that fit reasonably well together and each train should consist of stock that would have run together in a train. I like trains such as the voyager or Chiltern class 168 but I think it would be wrong to run either of these on my 1960s based layout as it would ruin the illusion and atmosphere.
I always feel disappointed when I see trains that are just plain wrong (i.e. a diesel pulling private owner coal wagons) or were not around at the same time on a layout at exhibitions. Unless of course the point of the layout is to show trains at a location over the years.
IMHO Too many exhibitors don't seem to be interested in running correct stock.

Having said all that the next exhibition layout I will be involved with is a G scale one which will run stock which does not fit together at all. My reasoning is that this layout is designed to promote and capture the feel of garden railways where stock of different scales and from different continents are often run at the same time. I don't know why but this doesn't seem to matter out in the garden but would bother me indoors.

[D1042 Western Princess]

I know virtually nothing about liveries apart from some dates I read on wiki about changes. Following this thread is confusing me now. I will be starting a new layout after crimbo set around 1960/63 western region I had thought that I would get all mk1s in maroon. Now the question is would crimson/cream and chocolate/cream liveries still be around at that time on the western region and would It be only mk1s or would there be other types of coaching stock from earlier days. Sorry for what may seem draft questions but I only took interest in Railways this year so are very much in my infancy on the learning scale.

Between 1960 and 63 you would have had the (then) new diesels in BR Maroon and BR Green, not to mention 'Golden Ochre', Desert Sand and various other experimental liveries running alongside the aging steam in BR Black and BR Green liveries, a lot of pre nationalisation stock around, 'blood and custard', maroon and chocolate and cream coaches, green DMUs, steam and diesel 'double stamps', lots of SWB goods wagons -  there are even unusual workings like branch trains with GWR B Sets and the latest diesel type hauling (the Highworth branch had 03 haulage with ex GWR B sets, for example), sounds like a nice, colourful idea for a layout.
Good luck with it.

[D1042 Western Princess]

Likewise - mine would be an endless stream of Westerns, Warships, Hymeks, Class 22s and a 14!
An occasional Duff 4 perhaps, but that would be it - sheer heaven to many, a bit dull to others.

My layout is an endless stream of Westerns, Warships, Hymeks and class 22s with a brush type 4. I have a few Western Region kettles as well. I don't see how that can be dull to anyone!

Just to let the doubters know - although our ideas are identical we are NOT the same person!

[D1042 Western Princess]

Quote from Wikipedia:

"Originally, multiple units were also painted in all over Rail Blue, however the blue and grey coaching stock livery was eventually also applied to all gangwayed DMUs, EMUs and DEMUs from about 1980 onwards until the introduction of the new Sector liveries in the mid-1980s. "

So it seems blue-grey coaching stock would be OK but not multiple units. I know it isn't the most reliable source though


Paul

Is Wiki right though? In his book "The Western since 1948" G Freeman Allen shows a Gloucester RCW DMU running in Cornwall as early as 1975 wearing very much work stained blue/grey livery, so some DMUs must have had it applied well before 1980. As you say Paul, "not the most reliable source".

Because captions can, sometimes, give incorrect dates, additionally I checked the Bradford Barton "DMUs countrywide" book (published 1976, and therefore no picture in it could be later) to see pictures of DMUs in blue/grey as early as 1970 working in the Bristol area. I'd say a b/g DMU would not be wrong, on a WR layout anyway, from the late 1960s onwards.

[Chris Morris]

Likewise - mine would be an endless stream of Westerns, Warships, Hymeks, Class 22s and a 14!
An occasional Duff 4 perhaps, but that would be it - sheer heaven to many, a bit dull to others.

My layout is an endless stream of Westerns, Warships, Hymeks and class 22s with a brush type 4. I have a few Western Region kettles as well. I don't see how that can be dull to anyone!

Just to let the doubters know - although our ideas are identical we are NOT the same person!

Our ideas aren't entirely identical. My layout is based in Devon so no class 14 on my layout.
You may want to come to the Severn Valley Railway on 8th & 9th April where I will be mainly running hydraulics - see http://www.svr.co.uk/SEItem.aspx?a=67 . I might even be located in the new diesel maintenance building at Kidderminster.

[D1042 Western Princess]

Likewise - mine would be an endless stream of Westerns, Warships, Hymeks, Class 22s and a 14!
An occasional Duff 4 perhaps, but that would be it - sheer heaven to many, a bit dull to others.

My layout is an endless stream of Westerns, Warships, Hymeks and class 22s with a brush type 4. I have a few Western Region kettles as well. I don't see how that can be dull to anyone!

Just to let the doubters know - although our ideas are identical we are NOT the same person!

Our ideas aren't entirely identical. My layout is based in Devon so no class 14 on my layout.
You may want to come to the Severn Valley Railway on 8th & 9th April where I will be mainly running hydraulics - see http://www.svr.co.uk/SEItem.aspx?a=67 . I might even be located in the new diesel maintenance building at Kidderminster.

My own strictly 1970 based WR layout shouldn't have a 14 either, but I've included one just to tell the story of the Hydraulics, in the same way a Class 41 (or D600) will be run - should an rtr version ever become available.

[Karhedron]

I know virtually nothing about liveries apart from some dates I read on wiki about changes. Following this thread is confusing me now. I will be starting a new layout after crimbo set around 1960/63 western region I had thought that I would get all mk1s in maroon. Now the question is would crimson/cream and chocolate/cream liveries still be around at that time on the western region and would It be only mk1s or would there be other types of coaching stock from earlier days. Sorry for what may seem draft questions but I only took interest in Railways this year so are very much in my infancy on the learning scale.

By the 1960s, principal expresses were almost exclusively Mk1s but plenty of Hwksworth and even Collett coaches could still be seen on less prestigous services. Farish have not yet released their Hawksworths in Maroon (annoyingly) but Dapol Colletts in Maroon could be seen. Also many branchlines still used Autocoaches or B-sets in Maroon (these not being phased out until around 1964 by DMUs).

Stock would mostly have been Maroon but with some variety. Crimson and cream was still fairly common in 1960 but rare by 1963. You would also have had some chocoloate and cream Mk1s. These were kept in complete sets until 1961-2. At this point the sets were broken up and the coaches mixed into the general pool. It was not uncommon to see very very mixed rakes with Maroon, crimson and cream and chocolate and cream all the in the same train for a few years.

[Newportnobby]

Dependent on where on the Western Region you locate your layout you could potentially have SR green coaches mixed in as well

[Chris Morris]

I don't know when it first got there but I can recall seeing a Thompson buffet car in blue & grey livery in Cornwall back in the seventies. I guess there will always be oddities that you wouldn't expect to see.