No lights for steam

[marco neri]

Hi,
comin' from european carriage....why UK steamers have no lights ?..
Why this choose from main producers? (Grafar and Dapol)....

[keithfre]

They didn't have enormous headlamps like US and some Continental locos, just oil lamps which were hung on brackets. Those are tiny in N scale. Scroll down to Steam Locomotive lighting here:
http://www.dccconcepts.com/index_files/dccinstallservices.htm
I reckon even those are too big!
Also: "Please note that throughout the life of steam in the UK, most lamps were in fact oil powered and so very dim."

[Komata]

marco

It's an interesting question, thanks for asking it.

Years ago a British railway magazine (Railway World?) had an article on this, and although I don't recall the magazine's title, the reasons that were given were so strange to the eyes of someone who worked with locomotives carrying good, strong, headlights,  that I have remembered the basics.  With that 'qualification', herewith my understanding of the situation:

As I recall it, in the very early days of railways in Britain, the matter of 'seeing ahead at night' came up and the locomotive drivers made a request to the company concerned (GWR?) that their locomotives have some form of 'headlight' for night running  so that drivers would be able to see what was ahead of them and wouldn't hit anything (such as wandering stock).

The Company response was an interesting one.  It was essentially that 'We (the Company) will fence the sides of our tracks to ensure that no stock will be able to wander onto it' (that solved that problem).

In respect of the view ahead from the cab, no method of illuminating the track at hight would be provided, and the Driver was to use the MOONLIGHT GLINTING OFF THE SHINING RAILS ahead of him to see any obstruction that might be in front of him!!

I kid you not!

Other railway companies subsequently agreed with this decision and so it became universally accepted, and the fact that the practice remained in place while steam was in everyday use in Britain would seem to give  credence to what I read.

As what I have written is memory-recalled, no doubt someone will now arrive and completely rubbish my post,  but I hope that what I have written helps, it was certainly an unusual practice.

[oreamnos]

The same answer given to this quesion was also supplied here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39985-why-did-uk-steam-locomotives-not-have-headlightsheadlamps/

I'm glad someone asked because it has been one of those things, as a Yankee, I've always wondered about!

Matt

[marco neri]

 Mmmh....with modern micro-led and optical fibers, the only one problem seems the position of the lightlamp....one or two for every kind of train...freight, passengers, mixed...
I think it's a big "hit", especially in DCC, and first producer decide it..makes BINGO!

[MikeDunn]

Mmmh....with modern micro-led and optical fibers, the only one problem seems the position of the lightlamp....one or two for every kind of train...freight, passengers, mixed...

I would think this will be very unlikely ... remember, these lamps are outside the body of the loco and therefore fibre-optic or any other solution needs to both interface with the mechanism (say DCC) and be permanently connected to the body.  See the problem ?  As soon as you (try to) take the body off, you find it's wired onto the mechanism ... not good.  I know Hornby have tried to get around this by using lenses; a poor solution, sadly, and one that gets worse in N.

Non-steamers don't have this limitation ... well, most of 'em anyway, I'm sure someone will point at a particular loco & prove the general principle has exceptions 

So in general, only those people willing to hard-wire (or similar) lights to a body will tend to have these in a working format ...

[Newportnobby]

Referring to real railways it's a wonder there were no more than a handful of accidents during WW2 when many trains ran at night with no means of seeing whether the tracks ahead had been cratered by bombs or not

Minitrix's 9F and Britannia's have front lights but, as there are just the two, it permanently signifies express workings.

[Caz]

As those who follow my various meanderings know I fit working loco lamps to all my steamers usingeither SMD 0604 LEDs with one of the connecting wires fashioned to form the handle or by putting a SMD somewhere in or under the body with a piece of fibre optic fitted to one of the various cast lamps.  The only problem as Mike Dunn points out is that the lights change depending on what sort of traffic the loco is working on  The way I have sort of got around this is to have 2 of the same running number, one fitted with say, a local passenger light coding and another with goods lamp coding, messy but it works.   

[PLD]

The headlamps carried by British steam locos are not to illuminate the way ahead for the crew. Their main purpose is to describe the type of train to the signalmen.

[Bealman]

Without a doubt (in my opinion), the expert in this field on this forum is Whiteswan and  Marco, I recommend you check out her excellent tutorials on fitting lights to steam locomotives (as well as tail lights to auto coaches!) 

[gorebridge2001]

Fitting lights to illuminate the track ahead at night was unlikely to prove very useful for fast moving locomotives. Stopping a fully laden train within a short distance is impossible.

[Oldun]

Mmmh....with modern micro-led and optical fibers, the only one problem seems the position of the lightlamp....one or two for every kind of train...freight, passengers, mixed...
I think it's a big "hit", especially in DCC, and first producer decide it..makes BINGO!

Re the above, see the light codes below and have some fun
[smg id=13896]
Roger

[trainsdownunder]

Using the above chart you have 4 [positions therefore you need is 4 SMDs either directly fitted to the loco or 4 SMDs in the tender linked to the various positions via fibre. All this driven by a suitable decoder.

Sounds simple doesn't it..............Might be possible with HO and O but NO not going to try it. There is a limit with N

[Caz]

I use 0604 SMD LEDs and fashion fine enamelled copper wire in the shape of a handle on one end and after affixing both wires I spray them matt black to block all light output.  I then spray them white (their normal colour) and once fully dry, I use a fine drill to remove the paint in a small circle to allow some light to show. 

Due to the number of variations in steam loco codes I only fit lamps that reflect its normal working, ie passenger express, passenger local or stopping goods.  For a couple of my panniers I have bought two locos and duplicated the number and fitted one with passenger lights and one with goods for instance.  The problem is you can't really have four lamps permanently mounted on the front of a loco as it would look silly (think a four means a Royal train). 

A couple of my panniers do run in reverse and for these I have mounted a white and a red LED under the buffer beam with a piece of fibre optic into the base of a loco lamp which captures either the white or red light output depending on direction, fiddly but it works.

[dodger]

Fitting lights to illuminate the track ahead at night was unlikely to prove very useful for fast moving locomotives. Stopping a fully laden train within a short distance is impossible.

Agree with your comments entirely. Even the headlights fitted to currents trains are to enable the driver to see trackside warning signs and persons on the track to see an approaching train at a greater distance.

Dodger