Quote from: martyn on September 13, 2021, 05:04:34 PM
@class8mikado

The 'Hook Continental' had Pullman buffet cars 'Irene' and 'Fortuna' in the 1938 set which lasted until 1963/4. I don't know what type these were. Internally, ther stock was similar to that of the 'Coronation' or Silver Jubilee' rather than standard vehicles, and AFAIK, not articulated. They did have the 'normal' teak sided finish rather than the special sides of the Streamliners.

About the early/mid 70s, there was one or two Mk1 Pullmans declassified to First in the set; I don't know when these went, but seemingly before 1983.

Martyn

'Irene' and 'Fortuna' were Standard (wooden-bodied) 'K'-types.

Quote from: gc4946 on September 13, 2021, 01:16:30 PM
I'm considering investing in a pair of parlour brake 3rds making up the end coaches with Mk1 Pullmans of a post-1960 Master Cutler Pullman service

That's exactly what I want too! However, as there are plans for the full range, I think I will also want at least one full rake of K-types. Looks like quite a few hundred quid to get past "the management"...

Hope there is a gap between release of these and the 1938 stock....

Quote from: talisman56 on September 14, 2021, 02:48:14 AM

Quote from: martyn on September 13, 2021, 05:04:34 PM
@class8mikado

The 'Hook Continental' had Pullman buffet cars 'Irene' and 'Fortuna' in the 1938 set which lasted until 1963/4. I don't know what type these were. Internally, ther stock was similar to that of the 'Coronation' or Silver Jubilee' rather than standard vehicles, and AFAIK, not articulated. They did have the 'normal' teak sided finish rather than the special sides of the Streamliners.

About the early/mid 70s, there was one or two Mk1 Pullmans declassified to First in the set; I don't know when these went, but seemingly before 1983.

Martyn

'Irene' and 'Fortuna' were Standard (wooden-bodied) 'K'-types.

@class8mikado

The first part of my post was poorly written, here's a second attempt, with an update based on Talisman56 reply;

The 1938 Hook Continental set, which lasted until 1963/4, had cars 'Irene' and 'Fortuna' .

The other coaches in the set resembled externally the standard LNER teak coaches, but internally resembled the insides of the Streamliners, including semi-open vehicles. I think at least some of the diagrams were unique to this set, though one or two standard vehicles were included.

Hope that makes a bit more sense. I didn't mean it to imply that the Pullmans internally resembled the Streamliners.

Martyn

Thanks for the Clarification, i have a book which details the LNER Coaches but not the pullman ones

so were these both k type ( wooden bodied) brakes ?

Quote from: talisman56 on September 14, 2021, 02:28:14 AM
For the 1959 formations there must be some 'Standard' (wooden bodied) 'K'-types included as there is a need for 27 Pullmans for those services, and there were only 32 All-Steel K-types. Some spare vehicles must be allowed for.

The 1963 services would be Mark I Pullmans with 'K'-type Parlour Second Brakes.

The LNER (ER in British Railways days) tended to skim off the more modern stock and leave the Southern with the older stock on the Pullman roster. Between 1949 and the end of 1960 all the All-Steel 'K'-types were on the LNER/ER. It was only when the Mark I Pullmans were coming on stock that the transfers to the SR took place, for the 'Bournemouth Belle' and Ocean Liner services.

The later trains are also complicated by the building of the "Festival of Britain" Pullmans in 1951 which would no doubt be mixed in with the existing stock.

As ever, building accurate train formations is going to be a matter of detective work with period photos and a good knowledge of the coaches themselves. Anyone doing so will struggle with photographers preference to photo the engine on the front, rather than getting an angle where the whole train can be seen!

Realistically with the mixing of different Pullman types within trains, using the Revolution all steel K-Type will only give a flavour of a Pullman train - particularly if modelling BR(S) or BR(W). Hopefully they'll sell well and lead to some of the earlier builds being produced.

Steven B

Quote from: class8mikado on September 14, 2021, 09:16:34 AM
Thanks for the Clarification, i have a book which details the LNER Coaches but not the pullman ones

so were these both k type ( wooden bodied) brakes ?

'Irene' and 'Fortuna' were Kitchen First cars.

Quote from: Steven B on September 14, 2021, 09:39:30 AM

Quote from: talisman56 on September 14, 2021, 02:28:14 AM
For the 1959 formations there must be some 'Standard' (wooden bodied) 'K'-types included as there is a need for 27 Pullmans for those services, and there were only 32 All-Steel K-types. Some spare vehicles must be allowed for.

The 1963 services would be Mark I Pullmans with 'K'-type Parlour Second Brakes.

The LNER (ER in British Railways days) tended to skim off the more modern stock and leave the Southern with the older stock on the Pullman roster. Between 1949 and the end of 1960 all the All-Steel 'K'-types were on the LNER/ER. It was only when the Mark I Pullmans were coming on stock that the transfers to the SR took place, for the 'Bournemouth Belle' and Ocean Liner services.

The later trains are also complicated by the building of the "Festival of Britain" Pullmans in 1951 which would no doubt be mixed in with the existing stock.

As ever, building accurate train formations is going to be a matter of detective work with period photos and a good knowledge of the coaches themselves. Anyone doing so will struggle with photographers preference to photo the engine on the front, rather than getting an angle where the whole train can be seen!

Realistically with the mixing of different Pullman types within trains, using the Revolution all steel K-Type will only give a flavour of a Pullman train - particularly if modelling BR(S) or BR(W). Hopefully they'll sell well and lead to some of the earlier builds being produced.

Steven B

IIRC the 1951 Pullmans found themselves on the SR Eastern Section 'Golden Arrow' and Western Section Ocean Liner Express services more often than not.

Quote from: talisman56 on September 14, 2021, 10:21:25 AM

Quote from: class8mikado on September 14, 2021, 09:16:34 AM
Thanks for the Clarification, i have a book which details the LNER Coaches but not the pullman ones

so were these both k type ( wooden bodied) brakes ?

'Irene' and 'Fortuna' were Kitchen First cars.

Thank you. Looks like farish got that wrong then

Some more detail (all taken from Ford's Pullman Profile No 3).

1938 allocations (non LNER):
Bournemouth Belle: Juana and Ursula
Ocean Liner Express: Group 1: Evadne, Lucille, Loraine; Group 2: Ione, Eunice; Group 3: Zena

Various LNER/ER Queen of Scots rakes:
April 1948: 77, 70, 75, Juana, Ione, 83, 81, 79, Agatha, 67 (all steel K types)
August 1951: 65, 72, 83, Loraine, Lucille, 64*, 107*, 161*
Feb 1957: 78, 68, Juana, Belinda, Cynthia*, 83, 79

(* not steel K types)
I've got some more all steel K type full rakes for the QoS somewhere in my research.

Yorkshire Pullman
June 1953: 79, 70, 75, 73, Ursula, Ione, 71, 78 (all steel K types)

There's a lot more information in Antony Ford's book for anyone interested in more details.

Cheers Mike

Quote from: Newportnobby on September 13, 2021, 04:16:55 PM

However, if you can knock up a 'Falcon' for release with the 'K's then I'll definitely be up for it

BHE still list a Falcon as an etched kit. No idea how good it is or if it is still available but if it is, you have no excuse, Mick!

Cheers,

Chris

Quote from: Papyrus on September 14, 2021, 01:20:08 PM

Quote from: Newportnobby on September 13, 2021, 04:16:55 PM

However, if you can knock up a 'Falcon' for release with the 'K's then I'll definitely be up for it

BHE still list a Falcon as an etched kit. No idea how good it is or if it is still available but if it is, you have no excuse, Mick!

Cheers,

Chris

How about 'not physically capable', Chris?

Great choice of prototype!

Here's another vote for releasing the steel type-K brakes as individual vehicles or in 2-packs to run with the GF by Bachmann Mk.1 Pullmans.  Although, technically, I think these should be Parlour Brake Seconds (rather than Parlour Brake Thirds) to run with the Mk.1 Pullmans which were introduced in 1960.

Also, a plea to make sure that the Umber & Cream liveries of the proposed steel K-types match the GF by Bachmann models.  I know that this is obvious, but I believe that there have been some strange matches on carmine & cream (and even maroon) coaches made by different manufacturers.

Yours in anticipation

Ian   

Quote from: icairns on September 15, 2021, 01:51:55 AM
Although, technically, I think these should be Parlour Brake Seconds (rather than Parlour Brake Thirds) to run with the Mk.1 Pullmans which were introduced in 1960.

Fortunately the Parlour Brake Seconds are just the Parlour Brake Thirds with the class numbers changed - third class travel in the UK ended in June 1956 (as in the rest of main-land Europe). Until that time it was only BR(S) boat trains that had all three classes - third class accommodation having to be provided on each train.


Steven B.

I'll get some of these to use on my "Golden Arrow" and as loose coaches in boat trains even though they are not strictly correct. I think they should be the older wooden bodied type but in N and from normal viewing distances I think the fact there is a well modelled Pullman is more important than the right name and number.......

Dave

In addition to a full representative "Queen of Scots" set, I'd like to add my "Plus 1" to the double-pack of Brake thirds to accompany the Mk1 Pullmans.

Best

Scott.