can anybody explain to me how ..

if I go to a 'pub' for a meal and a drink ...

I am less at risk of catching Covid than ...

if I got to a 'pub' for just a drink ?

I thought alcohol killed germs / viruses, otherwise why do I have to use alcohol hand washes everywhere I am still allowed to go.

mind you, seeing how many people down at Tescos / Morrisons etc do not bother, why do I

Hi @class37025

I would think the logic is that an establishment that sells substantial meals with drinks (alcohol or otherwise) requires people to remain seated for the duration.  Remember, table service is also required.  In addition, the excessive consumption of alcohol is less likely and therefore behaviour (or compliance as the Government likes to call it) will be better leading to less potentially dangerous social interaction.

The Government is trying to balance public health/safety against economic realities and there will always be exceptions, winners, losers etc.

Kind regards

Paddy

Quote from: class37025 on October 21, 2020, 06:40:33 PM
can anybody explain to me how ..

if I go to a 'pub' for a meal and a drink ...

I am less at risk of catching Covid than ...

if I got to a 'pub' for just a drink ?

I thought alcohol killed germs / viruses, otherwise why do I have to use alcohol hand washes everywhere I am still allowed to go.

mind you, seeing how many people down at Tescos / Morrisons etc do not bother, why do I

The only very iffy logic I could apply is that if you have a meal you are expected to leave when finished eating, reducing time in venue. Whilst drinking by itself you are more likely to stay all evening and be exposed to virus for longer, by becoming drunk and more relaxed and mixing with other people.

I have my doubts about a few of the policies, as none are any good with out enforcement.

Its the same logic that says covid will only be spread in the home but not in schools or the workplace,or that taxi drivers are spreaders whilst chauffeurs aren't,or you can go to the cinema on your own surrounded by strangers but cant go with a close friend who doesn't live with you, plus many many  more illogical rules

Quote from: themadhippy on October 21, 2020, 07:18:05 PM
Its the same logic that says covid will only be spread in the home but not in schools or the workplace,or that taxi drivers are spreaders whilst chauffeurs aren't,or you can go to the cinema on your own surrounded by strangers but cant go with a close friend who doesn't live with you, plus many many  more illogical rules

I think that the logic of that is that schools are necessary and while they push infection rates up, that can be countered by making changes and closing other places to keep the overall rate down. As for the rest, when with strangers, you are more likely to maintain distancing, while with friends and family, there is the temptation to hug, kiss or otherwise break the rules. I have seen this myself - my wife is vulnerable, yet when visits were allowed, her sister (who had been mixing with her adult children, her partner's family and friends), couldn't resist diving in for a hug.

Quote from: themadhippy on October 21, 2020, 07:18:05 PM
Its the same logic that says covid will only be spread in the home but not in schools or the workplace,or that taxi drivers are spreaders whilst chauffeurs aren't,or you can go to the cinema on your own surrounded by strangers but cant go with a close friend who doesn't live with you, plus many many  more illogical rules

You probably spend more time close to a possible infected person in the home, schools and workplaces can apply measures to keep people separate and bring educational and economic benefits that visits to other households don't.  Chauffeurs usually only drive a small number of people each day, taxi drivers see many more so are more likely to catch and spread infection. 

At the end of the day it's a balance of risk and benefit, and we still know very little about how much risk arises from different activities.  So it's possible to argue for and against any particular measure, but in the absence of evidence it's based on nothing more than applying judgement. 

Isn't using "logic" and Government" (Of any flavour) in the same sentence an oxymoron?

Personally I believe its all a balancing act, my guess is the scientists who advise the government are also influencing them to control exposure as a proportion of a population needs to be immune before herd immunity kicks in.

From what I have read a certain amount number of people have to be immune to help bolster the effect of a vaccine, that is if one is finally discovered, as not all people respond to a vaccine!

I don't know if herd immunity  comes in to this as no one is sure if catching this leaves you immune.

Quote from: class37025 on October 21, 2020, 06:40:33 PM
can anybody explain to me how ..

if I go to a 'pub' for a meal and a drink ...

I am less at risk of catching Covid than ...

if I got to a 'pub' for just a drink ?

I thought alcohol killed germs / viruses, otherwise why do I have to use alcohol hand washes everywhere I am still allowed to go.

mind you, seeing how many people down at Tescos / Morrisons etc do not bother, why do I

Sadly those going to a pub just for drinks are more likely to..
Drink in excess, lose control then
Get close to each other,
Shout more as the general noise level goes up.

Those going to have a meal, are..
Not likely to drink in excess and lose control,
Sit in small groups across a table,
Generally talk quieter when not stuffing themselves

Whilst CV19 seems a nasty bug, for me the more worrying aspect is Long COVID.  A number of people's health seems to have been blighted for the longer term and many of these are the young.

Kind regards

Paddy

Quote from: javlinfaw7 on October 22, 2020, 10:10:22 AM
I don't know if herd immunity  comes in to this as no one is sure if catching this leaves you immune.

I agree, but I can't help thinking Guinea Pig for some reason!

The problem is body density, movement and amount of expelled breath, and how many contact points you have.  The following principles can be applied in any situation including your home.

If you are standing and/or moving around, amongst a larger number of people, your number of potential contact points is much higher.

If you are fixed in your position and spaced (classroom, dining table etc) you have far fewer contact points.



As a scientist recently pointed out, "this virus does not vote but the person who gives you the virus almost certainly does".

Quote from: javlinfaw7 on October 22, 2020, 10:10:22 AM
I don't know if herd immunity  comes in to this as no one is sure if catching this leaves you immune.

My IT manager has caught it twice.
Once in February and once in August. same symptoms for both bouts. He gets it almost asymptomatically, so he had to lie about symptoms to get tested.
He nearly gave it to me but for me being busy the day he got a call from Test and Trace telling him to isolate 10 days from the previous Wednesday!
He also spent that weekend with his 93 yo mum, and sister and brother and their children. Thankfully only one of the children picked it up from him.
(It was a Bank Holiday weekend and Test and Trace dont seem to bother to contact people over Bank Holiday Weekends).

So we will probably have to have two inoculations (many of the up and coming vaccines are based on two jabs) twice a year to guarantee protection from this damn virus.

Bob

Quote from: Bob G on October 22, 2020, 01:28:07 PM

Quote from: javlinfaw7 on October 22, 2020, 10:10:22 AM
I don't know if herd immunity  comes in to this as no one is sure if catching this leaves you immune.

My IT manager has caught it twice.
Once in February and once in August. same symptoms for both bouts. He gets it almost asymptomatically, so he had to lie about symptoms to get tested.
He nearly gave it to me but for me being busy the day he got a call from Test and Trace telling him to isolate 10 days from the previous Wednesday!
He also spent that weekend with his 93 yo mum, and sister and brother and their children. Thankfully only one of the children picked it up from him.
(It was a Bank Holiday weekend and Test and Trace dont seem to bother to contact people over Bank Holiday Weekends).

So we will probably have to have two inoculations (many of the up and coming vaccines are based on two jabs) twice a year to guarantee protection from this damn virus.

Bob

Its mutating and the different strains may not be killed by the same antibodies, also he may not have had it seriously enough to create antibodies ~ 12% of those diagnosed.