@Les1952 Yes, so many folk seam to have the chuff rate set far too slow on their steamers, I would expect at least 4 chuffs per revolution.  I suppose without a physical chuff trigger in small scale models it's difficult to get auto-chuff to be a good match across the full speed range.

Phrases I never thought I'd see in a thread of mine...

..."auto-chuff".

Quote from: ntpntpntp on September 19, 2020, 12:54:25 PM
@Les1952 Yes, so many folk seam to have the chuff rate set far too slow on their steamers, I would expect at least 4 chuffs per revolution.  I suppose without a physical chuff trigger in small scale models it's difficult to get auto-chuff to be a good match across the full speed range.

4 exhaust beats to the revolution for 2-cylindered locos, 6 to the revolution for three-cylindered.  Lord Nelson class is 8 to the revolution, other 4-cylindered locos exhaust the cylinders in pairs.

CV267 sets the chuff rate per revolution.  Not difficult to do but can be fiddly to get it exact.  The problem with TTS sound is that it uses a cheapo chip that doesn't have enough zeros and ones in its binary to reach CV267, so the chuff rate is what you get.  No solution to that problem apart from binning the TTS and putting in a proper sound chip in its place.

Les

Quote from: Les1952 on September 19, 2020, 03:39:08 PM

CV267 sets the chuff rate per revolution.

High CVs like that have different meanings for different brands and models of decoder,  and anyway without a physical chuff trigger it'll only ever be an approximation.

Also, from experience in a larger scale, the right number of chuffs just sounds like a sewing machine as soon as any speed is achieved.

Very true. Train simulators blend in additional sound sets to replicate high speed running and it's much more convincing.

Quote from: Yet_Another on September 19, 2020, 04:21:29 PM
Also, from experience in a larger scale, the right number of chuffs just sounds like a sewing machine as soon as any speed is achieved.

Real steam locos can sound rather like sewing machines when going at speed, especially when running on the level.  I guess most of us only see steam locos on preserved lines where they are running at 25mph. I watched the black 5 run along the Dawlish sea wall just a couple of weeks ago and at the time I thought it sounded more like a sewing machine than a steam loco. They tend to be fairly quiet when running at speed on level ground. On the other hand steam locos running up at speed can sound very impressive and make a very different sound to locos on the level. If folk are going to take a video of a steam loco at speed they will therefore often find  a location with a gradient. Steam locos going downhill with the steam low or off make a very different sound again.

Some little clips of mine to illustrate steam locos at speed.

Jubilee running on the level. Hardly any noise at all, but a bit of steam.


Castle at speed through Dawlish Warren. Noisier but not really chuffing.


Same loco climbing up to Whiteball and probably giving it all she has got.


I can't recall a sound chip providing all the variations of sound created although many now have a cruise sound.
For me the thing these videos illustrate is that a steam loco needs to throw out lots of steam - something that just can't be done in model form in any scale unless you have a real live steamer. I have often wondered whether something from the vaping world could be used - in larger scales of course rather than N. I have said I prefer models of diesels to models of steam locos because it is so difficult to capture the full look of a steam loco on the move due to the lack of steam. Sorry I've digressed now.

Quote from: Chris Morris on September 20, 2020, 07:01:32 AM

I can't recall a sound chip providing all the variations of sound created although many now have a cruise sound.
For me the thing these videos illustrate is that a steam loco needs to throw out lots of steam - something that just can't be done in model form in any scale unless you have a real live steamer. I have often wondered whether something from the vaping world could be used - in larger scales of course rather than N. I have said I prefer models of diesels to models of steam locos because it is so difficult to capture the full look of a steam loco on the move due to the lack of steam. Sorry I've digressed now.

Some good points there: I think you can only take the illusion of reality so far and then let your imagination fill in the gaps. There is a new generation of smoke generators for OO gauge on the market but they aren't very convincing in my opinion.  Not yet anyway: I should think they will get better over the next few years.  Done well I think DCC sound can add an extra dimension and help create atmosphere: done badly it just makes our toys seem more toy-like.

I'm hoping to shortly get my hands on an A3 sound file modified to add a bit of extra roughness (rod knock, uneven exhaust beats).  I will be interested to see how well it works.  Most sound files are recorded from preserved locos which tend to be rather lower mileage and more fastidiously maintained than in the latter days of BR steam.

Richard

Yes - nothing worse than a completely even chuff that is nowhere near in sync to the wheel revolutions. Worst offenders for the chuff are LGB G scale locos. The wheels are going round fast but the sound is a very slow and monotonous chuff. At least N gauge locos are always better than that.

Quote from: Chris Morris on September 21, 2020, 09:33:09 AM
Worst offenders for the chuff are LGB G scale locos. The wheels are going round fast but the sound is a very slow and monotonous chuff.

I have an early 90s factory sound/DCC LGB Mikado. It has 2 chuffs per revolution, which is not enough but at least it is physically timed with the wheels.   When I had my garden line up and running I didn't run the sound for more than a few minutes though.

My favourite G loco with sound has to be a Bachmann 3-truck shay with QSI sound, nice load control to the sounds and it correctly chuffs away like a sewing machine while the loco crawls along     

Overall I still prefer no sound even in G scale, after a while it's just tiresome.  Much prefer the quiet hum and clickety-clack round the garden.   

i bought an early chinese farish king a few weeks back.  it has got something wrong with it---it pulls 9 coaches well enough and emits a strange noise--just like the exhaust beat of the real thing!  free sound!

Have been quite chuffed at reading through this thread 

I have a few sound fitted locos, I tend to turn the sound off after a couple of mins running so I consider sound a nice novelty but not a must have.