Weirdly that doesn't seem to be the case. I think now most models have been done by RTR manufacturers there's a dwindling pool of people who'd pay even the original price for them. There's been a couple of 57s on eBay for ages. There was a 66 which went round and round for ages too before selling.

The 59s and 89s will probably always sell well Until there's another option, although again there was a DB 59 a year or so ago and that didn't sell well.

I think the issue, to an extent, is that CJM was a relatively little-known manufacturer who hasn't released a model in years, so many casual participants in the hobby won't have heard of him - much like Union Mills.

When people see those prices for an old model, they just think it's ebay madness - especially when, for the most part, they can get a new DCC ready version with lighting from a major manufacturer at a fraction of the price. That, coupled with one rather prolific ebayer's attempts to pass any terrible kit build or respray off as an original CJM, doesn't help the image among those who don't know that these are actually the Rolls Royce of the hobby!

Quote from: Capri_sam on August 10, 2020, 09:36:29 AM
I think the issue, to an extent, is that CJM was a relatively little-known manufacturer who hasn't released a model in years, so many casual participants in the hobby won't have heard of him - much like Union Mills.

When people see those prices for an old model, they just think it's ebay madness - especially when, for the most part, they can get a new DCC ready version with lighting from a major manufacturer at a fraction of the price. That, coupled with one rather prolific ebayer's attempts to pass any terrible kit build or respray off as an original CJM, doesn't help the image among those who don't know that these are actually the Rolls Royce of the hobby!

Not really sure that that's true - those who are interested certainly will know about them. The fact that some of his recent models at not unrealistic prices on buy it now sit on ebay for months suggests that they are no longer as popular now that there are RTR models of all apart from the 59 and 89 - both of which are fairly niche anyway (one small class, and a one-off). The lack of lights and the difficulty in fitting DCC to some of them may also put some people off. When these models were first released they were vastly superior to the RTR options at the time (if those even existed), but RTR has to some extent caught up and the difference is now much less significant than it was.

I have a couple of the 67s, and they are excellent models. However, I bought them second-hand and I don't think the difference between them and the Dapol ones is sufficient enough that I would have paid the full new price for them.

I think it's probably a bit of both. Unless you know the provenance you're unlikely to pay more than you would for an equivalent Dapol/Farish model, you've got to know about CJM and actively want one, which limits the market in the first place. I also had a 67, it was nice, but I sold it on, as it wasn't really any better (to my eye) than the Dapol one. I bought it (and sold it) for a similar amount to a Dapol one anyway. It didn't have a saturn chassis to be fair - many of the BO-BOs have a Kato chassis, which is obviously very good still. I think anything with the Saturn chassis is inherently more valuable.

Some of his models are definitely utterly stunning, the 50 stands out as being truly magnificent to me. It surpasses Dapol's efforts, but (at new prices) they're 5 times as much, and is it that much better?

I hadn't even noticed that the last post before resurrection was by me regarding the 92. I actually went to an exhibition with cash metaphorically in hand to buy a 92, but when I held one in my hand and looked at it, I was a bit underwhelmed, most notably by the painted headlights. I totally get not having them working, but glazed would have looked better. It also had real hallmarks of being hand painted; a bit of a wobbly cant rail stripe IIRC, and the pantographs are the generic Sommerfeldt offerings which feels like a bit of a let down! That said - I've seen other examples on layouts which have looked better, but in the end I couldn't bring myself to spend the £750 (IIRC) on one. Then Revolution announced theirs, and I've got 7 coming, for barely any more money.

I'd definitely still buy a Hanson 59, but I've literally never seen one come up. I'd probably have a 66 too frankly, for moving heavy trains, but I can't see me spending more than £200 on one. I have a recurring eBay search saved, they do come up periodically, but I'd definitely say, if anything, they've gone down in value.

CJM had a time and a place which may be passing, however the Saturn chassis were and are head and shoulders above most RTR chassis. 

I would have no interest in a "touched up Farish" but I do seriously consider 100% CJM models (with Saturn and his own bodies) not that I have many.  The other CJM model of note was the White Rose repaint of the Eurostar.

Quote from: Snowwolflair on August 10, 2020, 12:29:07 PM
CJM had a time and a place which may be passing, however the Saturn chassis were and are head and shoulders above most RTR chassis. 

I would have no interest in a "touched up Farish" but I do seriously consider 100% CJM models (with Saturn and his own bodies) not that I have many.  The other CJM model of note was the White Rose repaint of the Eurostar.

Yep, totally agree with that. The Eurostars were exorbitant, but were very nicely finished. I've done a couple myself, but Chris's were lovely!

Got a 92, direct from source, very special to me.

Agree the Revolution ones will knock it out of the park (got two on the way as well), but at the time there wasn't an option and there still isn't for 92022 which I ordered from Chris.

At the time the 59 was already promised from Dapol so though I desperately want at least 2, they had a potential alternative. I would still like one / two CJM 59s in the correct livery because I can almost be 100% sure they will pull better than a Dapol chassis.

Alas, 2nd hand 59s are as rare as the chicken dentures and almost always not the spec I want.

Plus I am broke.

Skyline2uk 

Quote from: Skyline2uk on August 10, 2020, 05:48:18 PM
Got a 92, direct from source, very special to me.

Agree the Revolution ones will knock it out of the park (got two on the way as well), but at the time there wasn't an option and there still isn't for 92022 which I ordered from Chris.

At the time the 59 was already promised from Dapol so though I desperately want at least 2, they had a potential alternative. I would still like one / two CJM 59s in the correct livery because I can almost be 100% sure they will pull better than a Dapol chassis.

Alas, 2nd hand 59s are as rare as the chicken dentures and almost always not the spec I want.

Plus I am broke.

Skyline2uk

Not seen any 59s listed recently, but four or five years ago Rails had several listed on ebay as buy-it-now for months on end before they sold.

Quote from: davidinyork on August 10, 2020, 06:01:10 PM

Quote from: Skyline2uk on August 10, 2020, 05:48:18 PM
Got a 92, direct from source, very special to me.

Agree the Revolution ones will knock it out of the park (got two on the way as well), but at the time there wasn't an option and there still isn't for 92022 which I ordered from Chris.

At the time the 59 was already promised from Dapol so though I desperately want at least 2, they had a potential alternative. I would still like one / two CJM 59s in the correct livery because I can almost be 100% sure they will pull better than a Dapol chassis.

Alas, 2nd hand 59s are as rare as the chicken dentures and almost always not the spec I want.

Plus I am broke.

Skyline2uk

Not seen any 59s listed recently, but four or five years ago Rails had several listed on ebay as buy-it-now for months on end before they sold.

Might actually have been longer than that, and each and every one of them had a problem with it. Probably could have been repaired by Chris but seemed like a risk for me personally.

Skyline2uk

I remember those 59s and bought one of them. This was 6 years ago and the model had been sold by Chris 4 years earlier. It looked really good, finished in Amalgamated Roadstone Corporation mustard/grey livery along with a rake of bogie wagons resprayed in a comparable livery. However, something seemed to be wrong with the bogie next to the coupling - it made a nasty grinding sound when attempting to run it, possibly a broken gear or something stuck in the gear train. I showed it to Chris Marchant at TINGS that year and he discovered that the problem was ballast not only in the gears on both bogies but also around the worm drives. As a precaution a number of gears were replaced as were two wheels. Rails covered the bill for the repairs and now it runs really well. Top marks to both CJM and Rails for sorting the problem and solving it.

Quote from: msr on August 10, 2020, 06:15:10 PM
I remember those 59s and bought one of them. This was 6 years ago and the model had been sold by Chris 4 years earlier. It looked really good, finished in Amalgamated Roadstone Corporation mustard/grey livery along with a rake of bogie wagons resprayed in a comparable livery. However, something seemed to be wrong with the bogie next to the coupling - it made a nasty grinding sound when attempting to run it, possibly a broken gear or something stuck in the gear train. I showed it to Chris Marchant at TINGS that year and he discovered that the problem was ballast not only in the gears on both bogies but also around the worm drives. As a precaution a number of gears were replaced as were two wheels. Rails covered the bill for the repairs and now it runs really well. Top marks to both CJM and Rails for sorting the problem and solving it.

Well that's a great outcome!

Impressed Rails honoured the repair costs, I suppose if the problem wasn't mentioned on eBay (don't recall running issues being mentioned, just cosmetics), they didn't have much choice.

Skyline2uk

Quote from: msr on August 10, 2020, 06:15:10 PM
I remember those 59s and bought one of them. This was 6 years ago and the model had been sold by Chris 4 years earlier. It looked really good, finished in Amalgamated Roadstone Corporation mustard/grey livery along with a rake of bogie wagons resprayed in a comparable livery.

I remember those too! Although didn't ARC stand for Amey Roadstone Construction...?

I am lucky enough to own several CJM 59's and all are still superb with more than enough pulling power for any rake of wagons I own. They easily pull 25 plus bogie stone wagons around my layout. the Saturn chassis is something else. Just a happy customer.   

JW

Still pride of the line 

Quote from: njee20 on August 10, 2020, 06:43:19 PM

Quote from: msr on August 10, 2020, 06:15:10 PM
I remember those 59s and bought one of them. This was 6 years ago and the model had been sold by Chris 4 years earlier. It looked really good, finished in Amalgamated Roadstone Corporation mustard/grey livery along with a rake of bogie wagons resprayed in a comparable livery.

I remember those too! Although didn't ARC stand for Amey Roadstone Construction...?

Taken from this link, "1972 – the business was taken over by Consolidated Goldfields and was renamed Amey Roadstone Construction". I only looked it up because I always thought it was Amey Roadstone Corporation