Quote from: jpendle on June 02, 2020, 04:04:02 AM

Quote from: acko22 on June 02, 2020, 03:19:09 AM
and avoiding @Newportnobby and his shoe dogging antics 

Well it takes all sorts I suppose 

Is that a requirement to be a Mod?

Quote from: emjaybee on June 02, 2020, 07:54:39 AM

Quote from: jpendle on June 02, 2020, 04:04:02 AM

Quote from: acko22 on June 02, 2020, 03:19:09 AM
and avoiding @Newportnobby and his shoe dogging antics 

Well it takes all sorts I suppose 

Is that a requirement to be a Mod?

The initiation ceremony is truly a sight to behold.

Quote from: railsquid on June 02, 2020, 08:28:23 AM

Quote from: emjaybee on June 02, 2020, 07:54:39 AM

Quote from: jpendle on June 02, 2020, 04:04:02 AM

Quote from: acko22 on June 02, 2020, 03:19:09 AM
and avoiding @Newportnobby and his shoe dogging antics 

Well it takes all sorts I suppose 

Is that a requirement to be a Mod?

The initiation ceremony is truly a sight to behold.

shoe dodging think I will give that a miss. And stick to the enjoyment of trains

Quote from: railsquid on June 02, 2020, 08:28:23 AM

Quote from: emjaybee on June 02, 2020, 07:54:39 AM

Quote from: jpendle on June 02, 2020, 04:04:02 AM

Quote from: acko22 on June 02, 2020, 03:19:09 AM
and avoiding @Newportnobby and his shoe dogging antics 

Well it takes all sorts I suppose 

Is that a requirement to be a Mod?

The initiation ceremony is truly a sight to behold.

@acko22
Too late, Gareth. I spotted it earlier this morning
Yes, I have been guilty of shoe dodging but am completely innocent of shoe dogging.
If anyone suggests otherwise I'll be round to put the boot in

Quote from: Newportnobby on June 02, 2020, 10:10:53 AM
Yes, I have been guilty of shoe dodging but am completely innocent of shoe dogging.
If anyone suggests otherwise I'll be round to put the boot in

Cue the cries of "that's never a foot"

Quote from: Only Me on June 01, 2020, 10:12:37 PM

Quote from: 37214 on June 01, 2020, 09:26:07 PM
2 - LAPL(S) - Light Aircraft Pilot Licence (Sailplanes) for gliding and motorglider and LAPL(A) - Light Aircraft Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) for Single Engine Piston.

I tried to post pictures of the aircraft I fly but I keep getting an error saying only PDF format allowed. If you google G-OSFB, that's the Dimona motorglider and G-BTRY is the PA28 I was flying pre-Covid.

You are trying to add a picture to the pdf files!! Just click add picture at the bottom of your next post in the quick reply box...

"Add image to post and upload to gallery"

Nope, didn't work. Which is strange as I have posted pictures before from this device.

I like it when a post about a small RC helicopter is now running to 8 pages and with entertaining jokes

Now back to flying the now 2 small helicopters into the furniture with my daughter, they are still in one piece for now, well at least you can get spares, more than can be said for my laid up Dapol 66 with split gears

I better watch out for that Ming vase

Quote from: Rabbitaway on June 02, 2020, 08:58:20 PM

I better watch out for that Ming vase

Show it no mercy!

That brings back a   Flash   of memory! 

Yes, Gordon he's alive

Hi All,

I ducked out of this topic for a bit to avoid turning into a Marxist (and posted some layout photos in the "What's happening on your layout" thread instead). Anyway, and with apologies for spoiling the humour (which is what we all really need right now), I've come up with some more figures, which will hopefully neither bore nor annoy you, but probably will.

In 1990, the mean-average UK income (all adults) was £23,570; now (well, before the lockdown) it is £34,200. Leaving out changes in the buying power of a pound, but on raw "number of pounds" figures only, that's an increase of 45%. The rate of increase of the median income over the same period, incidentally, is 45.5%.

In 1990, the RRP of a new Farish Mk1 was £6. Now it's £36. That's an increase of 500%.

In 1990, the RRP of a new Farish 37 was £40. Now it's £135. That's an increase of 237.5%.

In 1990, the RRP of the cheapest new Farish train set with a controller was £65. Now it's £200. That's an increase of 208%.

For various reasons, the secondhand price of that 1990's MK1 is now about £18 (on a good day - increase of 200%; the secondhand price of that 1990's 37 is now about £65 (on a good day increase of, amazingly, only 65%).

For some good and some less good reasons, the RRPs of models from the core brand of UK N gauge have gone up far faster than the average person's buying power. So have many (but by no means all) secondhand items. This is inevitably going to have affected the demographic of N gauge modellers, is it not?

Also, the fact that rolling stock seems to be where the really massive price rises have taken place, might influence the types of layout being built?

Or do the above figures have very little effect, if it is actually the case that most current N gauge modellers are either people who have been doing it since forever or people who are wealthy or dedicated enough to keep buying large amounts of RTR? Are Farish 'preaching to the choir'?

I would love it if people could offer some similar figures from other, comparable hobbies. In the meantime, I'll stop boring / insulting you and go back to papier-mache scenery, using some old newspapers I found in the loft. I've just been landscaping around an overbridge using an Eastern Daily Press letters page - every letter is about Brexit. Ooh, the nostalgia...

Best Wishes,
Mat P.

Hi Mat,

Good post.

I suspect that part of the issue here is that, for a variety of reasons, salaries clearly have not kept pace with other inflationary costs - be they model trains, white goods or houses.

This page may help: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/how-have-prices-changed-over-time

Secondly, there's a big clue in the relatively low second hand value of the old Farish 37.  To me, that is a reflection on the demands for improved quality that have, in part, driven the price rises.

Cheers

Ben A.

@MatP
But no mention of the Chinese government decree that wages in China had to rise by 20% per year for 5 years in the 2000s. Now, and without getting political, imagine the same had happened in this country and many of the percentage increases quoted would be much reduced.
I still fail to see how a Dapol coach is almost half the price of a Farish one (although there is no direct comparison to make e.g. Mk1 to Mk1). Loco wise they are not too dissimilar.

Hi @MatP

Interesting numbers and to my mind the "buying power" of people's incomes have reduced significantly since 1990.  In part this has been masked by importing deflation from China (and other low cost manufacturing countries) during that period.  What we are seeing now is some of the impact from:

* The year 2000 .COM crash
* 9/11
* Second Iraq war
* Afghan conflict
* Libyan conflict
* Syrian conflict

and the biggest of the lot (so far)... the 2008 financial crisis.  These have all led to vast levels of governmental debt which has been serviced by artificially low interest rates and QE.

Sadly CV19 is the cherry on top of the cake and only the good Lord knows where we will go from here.  Hopefully the cost of toy trains will be worst of our problems (no levity intended).

Enough politics though, taking the MK1 coach as an example - it is hard to compare a Farish Poole MK1 from 1990 to its modern day counterpart:

1990 MK1

1. Pizza cutter wheels
2. One type of bogie
3. Generic under-frame
4. Clear printed sides/detail (in the main)
5. One type of roof
6. Only three coach types (brake, composite and buffet)
7. No pipe detail
8. Limited and relatively low detailed printing/livery

2020 MK1

1. Fine, blackened wheels
2. Several types of bogie
3. Specific under-frames for each coach
4. Specific molded bodies for each coach
5. Specific roof for each coach
6. Several coach types (brake, composite, buffet, Sleeper, All First etc.)
7. Pipe detail
8. High quality and detailed printing/livery

If Farish were manufacturing MK1 coaches to this level in Poole back in 1990 then I am sure they would have cost a lot more than £6?  To get a real feel you would need to do exactly this:

1. Produce a 2020 detailed MK1 model in Poole back in 1990 and work out the RRP
2. Produce a 1990 detailed MK1 model in China today and work out the RRP

Even then the above does not take volumes in to account.  I have no idea how many MK1s Farish in Poole sold back in 1990 vs Bachmann today?

Don't get me wrong, there is no doubting that the cost of models has increased significantly (from our perspective) over the last 3-5 years.  Whenever discussing prices though, one must remember "value" which is very much a personal thing based on circumstance, desire etc.

Coming back to cars - if all everyone wanted to do was to get from A to B then we would all buy Dacia Sanderos @ £6,995 rather than Audis, BMWs, Mercedes, Jaguars etc. etc. at 4x the price!

Time to put on my tin helmet and head for the Anderson shelter or as I like to call it "Post CV19 apocalyptic Shelter".



Kind regards

Paddy