Hi Folks,

On YouTube there are videos from a train manufacturer called ScaleTrains.com (just search for them).  The videos show how their models are designed and manufactured in China.

Whilst this is interesting in its own right what struck me was the process.  It is almost identical to what Graham Farish did in their factory in Poole.  Even the machines the Chinese are using match those that Farish had.

One scene shows how they make their own motors - I watched a lady in the Farish factory do exactly this.

I did not realise this as the time but Farish seems to have been bang up to date in many regards even 20 years ago.

Kind regards

Paddy

Yes totally agree Paddy.

I suppose back then manufacturing was shipped out to china and other places purely on economical grounds.
I hope that due to the current situation and other factors that manufacturing is brought back to the UK.

Quote from: honestjudge on April 14, 2020, 03:56:52 PM

I hope that due to the current situation and other factors that manufacturing is brought back to the UK.

Hi

Never going to happen as the cost of production would push the prices up beyond what most are prepared to pay. Just look at the comments re prices now.

Cheers

Paul

Costs are rising in china and the example I recall is Hornby who  started to bring production back to the uk.

Quote from: honestjudge on April 14, 2020, 04:56:12 PM
Costs are rising in china and the example I recall is Hornby who  started to bring production back to the uk.

Quite right, they are.

Median salary for a factory worker in China is now 4750 pounds per annum.
Median salary in the UK is just over 30,000 pounds per annum.

Still a bit of a gap there.

And let's not forget that the entire supply chain has moved to SE Asia, so moving final assembly back to the UK doesn't mean that Hornby et al will be winding motors anytime soon.

Regards,

John P

The machines may look the same but the output is much better. Look at the crispness of moulding and or decoration of modern models compared to Poole Farish (and that is even before you consider things like compromises shared chassis etc).

I've explained before why there is no prospect of model production moving back to the UK for the foreseeable future and the current situation hasn't changed that - as John has pointed out the discrepancy in wages kills that idea. Having said which it is important to note that it isn't just a question of wages (there are cheaper places to manufacture than China) but also having the right skills (Hornby have been stung by moving some of their manufacturing away from China in the recent past).

Cheers Mike

Quote from: red_death on April 14, 2020, 07:00:06 PM

I've explained before why there is no prospect of model production moving back to the UK for the foreseeable future and the current situation hasn't changed that - as John has pointed out the discrepancy in wages kills that idea. Having said which it is important to note that it isn't just a question of wages (there are cheaper places to manufacture than China) but also having the right skills (Hornby have been stung by moving some of their manufacturing away from China in the recent past).

Cheers Mike

Yes I can see that. And I am not saying Hornby are doing well and thriving, but they saw an option of a shift back to the UK and that is a fact. How successful that will ultimately be is any ones guess.

I would be surprised if the current situation does not have an impact on global trade. And, maybe an operation the size Hornby could not successfully compete in a global market by basing themselves in the UK, but Union Mills does ok from all accounts, and what with development of quality 3d printing, maybe the time will come for the small British cottage industry.
We are forever being told how small UK N gauge market is, maybe something will change. I certainly hope so.

Quote from: PaulCheffus on April 14, 2020, 04:45:56 PM

Quote from: honestjudge on April 14, 2020, 03:56:52 PM

I hope that due to the current situation and other factors that manufacturing is brought back to the UK.

Hi

Never going to happen as the cost of production would push the prices up beyond what most are prepared to pay. Just look at the comments re prices now.

Cheers

Paul

Not sure mass production will return to the UK anytime soon but I can see it leaving China post CV19.  It really depends how much our political class want to hold China responsible for the economic damage that the outbreak has caused.

This could push production from China to other low cost countries such as Vietnam, India etc.  If we find ourselves heading for a significant rejection of globalisation then anything could be possible.

Never say never as there are forces at play here which go way beyond low cost manufacturing.

Kind regards

Paddy

Quote from: honestjudge on April 14, 2020, 08:22:07 PM
Yes I can see that. And I am not saying Hornby are doing well and thriving, but they saw an option of a shift back to the UK and that is a fact. How successful that will ultimately be is any ones guess.

I would be surprised if the current situation does not have an impact on global trade. And, maybe an operation the size Hornby could not successfully compete in a global market by basing themselves in the UK, but Union Mills does ok from all accounts, and what with development of quality 3d printing, maybe the time will come for the small British cottage industry.
We are forever being told how small UK N gauge market is, maybe something will change. I certainly hope so.

Union Mills is a one man band with a completely different business case to every other manufacturer. I don't see any parallels to be drawn with UM to be honest unless there is another toolmaker who wants to create a UM v2!

We do know the outcome of Hornby's move of some manufacturing back to the UK it was very limited (didn't involve trains) - some Airfix (contracted out but no assembly costs) and Humbrol (badly received). In fact neither were a resounding success as they were done in 2014 and that management has long since left!

Cheers Mike

Quote from: Paddy on April 14, 2020, 08:25:44 PM
Not sure mass production will return to the UK anytime soon but I can see it leaving China post CV19.  It really depends how much our political class want to hold China responsible for the economic damage that the outbreak has caused.

This could push production from China to other low cost countries such as Vietnam, India etc.  If we find ourselves heading for a significant rejection of globalisation then anything could be possible.

Paddy

I already mentioned that there were cheaper places to manufacture but that price isn't everything. Again Hornby have tried some of those lower cost places without much success for model railways.

I don't see any rush to move model train production away from China (or that there are compelling reasons to do so).

Cheers Mike

Hi Mike ( @red_death )

Not sure how my original post went down this route - it was not my intention. 

I was simply surprised how similar the processes being followed matched those of Graham Farish in Poole back in 1999.

This is all getting a wee bit deep for the NGF.  However, all I will say is that under normal circumstances I would agree with you.  We are not in normal times and the CV19 outbreak may just bring things to a head (none of this has anything to do with toy trains).

We were heading towards a serious clash between the USA and China before CV19.  The outbreak has provided yet more ammunition to the President Trump administration to escalate.  It would seem likely that the Republicans will win another term and be able to follow through.

We have seen examples of how America plans to exert pressure with their categorisation of Huawei as a rogue company.  This approach could easily be extended to wider trade with China.

Have no doubt this is not a spat but rather a fight for global dominance between two super powers.  We have been here before many times in history and it rarely ends peacefully.

Right back to toy trains.  Can I have a R2 Setrack point from PECO please.



Kind regards

Paddy

NO!

You can't.

They're closed at the moment, don't you know. 

I think @paddy that the way these threads develop is typical of a discussion forum, until they get locked!

I suppose initially I saw in this thread a time when British skill and ingenuity was the norm until profitability, politics, globalization et al changed all that. I still believe in this country.

Maybe a Um V2 is the way to go for me. This current situation will have  profound consequences for china. I have a few things on order, obviously sourced from China, but it has certainly changed the way I think about what I want in future, and where it comes from.

Hi @honestjudge

Nothing wrong with believing in your country and the market normally finds a way! 

Kind regards

Paddy

Quote from: honestjudge on April 15, 2020, 07:54:20 AM
Maybe a Um V2 is the way to go for me. This current situation will have  profound consequences for china. I have a few things on order, obviously sourced from China, but it has certainly changed the way I think about what I want in future, and where it comes from.

Not sure it will frankly. I've had stuff direct from China recently, it certainly hasn't impacted my buying habits. "Made in Britain" is a lovely halcyon view, but I don't want to pay more unnecessarily, and like Mike (who'd know more than me) I don't think we actually have the appropriate skills in the necessary volumes for it to be a viable alternative.