The Class 390 is such an integral part of modern WCML operations, that an N Gauge model of some description is essential, particularly as the Class 350 EMU is soon to be available and there is a good supply of accompanying modern locos and freight stock.

The big problem with the 390 is she sheer amount of variety with the vehicles, meaning that producing conventional tooling would be so expensive that you would need to sell thousands (unlikely in N) or the resulting model would be massively expensive.

Quote from: Pendy on April 29, 2012, 11:55:54 AM

Quote from: Ollie3440 on April 29, 2012, 11:32:40 AM
I'm not saying anything more, you'll have to be patient.

Ollie

You are right - will have to be patient but a South Eastern Electrostar (for Greybeema) and a Southern one for me would be grand!

I'll sign up for that straight away...   Ready here - Credit Card in hand....   :computersmile:

Quote from: captainelectra on April 29, 2012, 12:15:39 PM
The Class 390 is such an integral part of modern WCML operations, that an N Gauge model of some description is essential, particularly as the Class 350 EMU is soon to be available and there is a good supply of accompanying modern locos and freight stock.

The big problem with the 390 is she sheer amount of variety with the vehicles, meaning that producing conventional tooling would be so expensive that you would need to sell thousands (unlikely in N) or the resulting model would be massively expensive.

How expensive is massively expensive? - after all for an 8 coach Dapol HST,  you'd be looking at £250 - 130 for the book set and 120 for 6 coaches (if they are 20 quid each)

I'm not suggesting £250 is too much for that- and I appreciate that the Pendolino is limited to one livery minimizing the veriety and the numbers people would buy.

But I am quite agnorant of the way these things work.

[quote author=tgv_obsessed link=topic=5409.msg60163#msg60163
I'm not suggesting £250 is too much for that- and I appreciate that the Pendolino is limited to one livery minimizing the veriety and the numbers people would buy.
[/quote]

A huge part of the cost of a plastic RTR model is the moulding tools. One reason that Japanese models seem so cheap is that they get divide this cost by a vast horde of Japanese modellers while the UK market is small.

The HST as produced basically consists of two types of vehicle. The power cars, and the coaches. Dapol have done some detail changes between vehicle types which adds to the cost. When they've finished they'll also have put out a generic RFM (wrong for many of the liveries) and a TGS, so that's a total of four vehicle types plus some detail bits plus extra interior. Even doing that they are compromising some of the designs a spot.

The Blue Pullman basically consists of two of each of three types of coach. That's going to be pricy as is. The Pendolino design has pretty much every coach different, so it would be very pricy using current technologies.

So if you want one you are going to have to scratch build it or work with others to develop a kit I suspect.

A scratchbuillt one may not be the best model in the world, but the odds are it'll at least be the second best N gauge pendolino ever made

Thanks for the explanation EP. I'd be happy with Josephs suggestion of a 5 car set to start with or even a sort of 'Railroad' equivalent.

Would I be right in thinking that an Electrostar would be easier to mass produce? If it came to a choice of liveries, I would choose the Southeastern as well (as there is nothing in that livery and I do have a Southern Turbostar)

Ollie, appreciate you can't give anything away about what Bachmann might produce. It's just fun to speculate!

Quote from: Pendy on April 29, 2012, 05:27:46 PM
Thanks for the explanation EP. I'd be happy with Josephs suggestion of a 5 car set to start with or even a sort of 'Railroad' equivalent.

I agree- 5 cars would be fine, though 6 cars would be better (2 less than a Eurostar, 2 more than a 4cep) and I would truly adore 'railroad' equivalent of lots of n stuff

but the reasons for its non production are very good ones, it does make me hope that whatever trains they use on HS2 will also be established shinkansens so at least I'll be able to fat control them !!!

I've mailed Dave Jones at Dapol with some of my thoughts and a few ideas about the 390.

Thanks Adam, for doing that. I also see that you have vinyls for a Southern Electrostar in T gauge and very smart it looks too! I've not got into T gauge but a shelf layout based on Arundel might be fun. Have to see how the finances work out first though!

You're bang on as usual about the APT Paul,however,I think what you say about the hst being a distant memory is very true,as BR initially introduced it as a stop gap until the APT was fully rolled out and run reliably.Obviously this wasn't to be so we still have the eternally wonderful hst,even though they have lost the Valenta engines.
Wouldn't they sound better with a big turbo bolted on to the top making the whistle of the old engines.

Alan,I don't know whether you look on rmweb from time to time,but Ring Road is sadly no more.It was scrapped a while ago and the chap who built it is well on his way with a new layout called Cross Street.I haven't looked at rmweb for a few weeks now,but he was almost complete with the build in order to show it at an exhibition.I'll have to have a look later to see how far he's got with it but as with Ring Road,he's scratch built all the buildings and scenery and it looks stunning,honestly it really does.

Now Ollie,listen to me,you're a very naughty boy,you can't drop us nuggets of information about rumoured releases and then keep quiet about it.
Even though I have a oo gauge APT,I am getting desparate for one in n gauge,or two!
On my next visit,I will have to ask about this,or you could pm me.

I promise my lips will be sealed.

Pete


PS.Can we have an APT emoticon?
Pretty please

Quote from: Pete Mc on April 29, 2012, 08:03:42 PM
PS.Can we have an APT emoticon?
Pretty please

Your wish etc etc etc 

Quote from: Pete Mc on April 29, 2012, 08:03:42 PM
Ring Road is sadly no more.It was scrapped a while ago and the chap who built it is well on his way with a new layout called Cross Street.

Wow! Fancy scrapping it!  I loved Ring Road - it was an excellent modern scratch built layout.  As much for the buildings as a layout.  What a shame to break it up!

Can't wait to see Cross Street if he's building on his learning from Ring Road.  Can you post us a link to save us hours of searching on RMWeb?

Mark,if you go onto the homepage,Cross Street is in one of the photo links at the very top of the page,well it was when I last looked anyway.
For the last six months or so,I've been browsing using my android phone,so have no idea how to do anything like pasting a link.
Failing the photo link option,if you are a registered rmweb member,you could try the search method.
When I this,I can't tell you how good this layout is,honestly.Although it is present day image,he has got this n gauge malarky down to a tee.I'm sure he is using his current stock as well.
I will warn you though,it is a very long thread and will take some committed reading,at 21 or so pages long it is a very comprehensive layout thread with tips galore and some quite breathtaking photography to boot.
Only other layouts that come up to the same standards as this are by Elvinley,Southernboy and a few select others.
Hope you manage to check it out.

Pete

Having just looked at the Cross Street thread,I can confirm the chap building it has completed it and its 14 pages long,not the 20 odd I at first said,still a long read though.

Pete

Quote from: JosephP on April 29, 2012, 10:11:49 AM
I remember a Jouef rep coming into my shop to proudly present a new TGV model (Eurostar, I think). I told him what a good job they had made of it. So how many, he asked, was I going to order. None, I replied, until you bring out the intermediate cars.

And isn't this part of the problem ? 

How can we purchasers buy stuff if you retailers won't stock it ?     But the mfrs do need to take a better hold on things ...

Mike

Quote from: Pendy on April 29, 2012, 05:27:46 PM
Would I be right in thinking that an Electrostar would be easier to mass produce? If it came to a choice of liveries, I would choose the Southeastern as well (as there is nothing in that livery and I do have a Southern Turbostar)

Certainly easier than a Pendolino. The fact that Farish are relasing the 350 Desiro shows they believe there is a market for this type of unit. However I would not expect to see an ElectroStar from Farish for some time (if ever). Their past releases show they like to maximise return from their investments by releasing related units that can re-use certain elements. Their new range of DMUs all use basically the same 57' chassis and mechanism. Based on this I would expect to see a 450 Desiro following on from the 350 and a 2-EPB scaled down from 00 long before they start looking at completely new families of units to exploit.

Dapol are shy of electrics after the poor sales of the 86. It is a loco lots of people clamoured loudly for yet it did not shift particularly well. Perhaps the lack of electric and BR blue liveries hurt sales.

I suspect that the Desiro and Blue Pullman will determine the liklihood of further electric releases from Dapol.

Quote from: EtchedPixels on April 29, 2012, 10:12:57 AM

Quote from: JosephP on April 29, 2012, 10:11:49 AM
manufacturers realise (Jouef made the same mistake with its various TGVs)

And Dapol with the HST....

Manufacurers are damned if they do and damned if they don't on this one. Release the stuff all in one go and you get people complaining that they cannot afford a complete 8-car train in one go. Then they complain that by the time they have enough cash, some vehicles have sold out and they can no longer buy a complete rake.

If they stagger their releases then some people hold off buying because of the uncertainty of being able to ever get a complete rake. Then people who held off complain that by the time the catering vehicles are released, you can no longer get some of the other vehicles in the matching livery.

It really is impossible to please everyone with large, fixed-rake trains.