Hi apologies if this is not the correct section but I was unsure where to place it.

Basically I am planning my first layout. 2x4 size and have zero N gauge stuff at present. 

Now upon visiting local model shops and seeking a bit of advice I was going to pick up a set. (Graham farish highlander) and purchase some extra track from there.
How ever I have since read mixed points from there on about the quality of the items included in the set and that it may be better to make a list and buy seperate?
Anyone got any recent experience of this and any words of wisdom?
What track ?
What controller (dcc)?

Basically looking for a double loop setup with a siding simular to below (without the raise crossover). And power source (want to go dcc) plus a locomotive to run on it to get me started. 

You could do worse than a Kato Unitrack layouts/ bits from Train Trax & Osborns
e
Click together track,motorised points with plug'n play   Electrics  - Farish locos seems to do best ( UK) or any German / japanese companies.

It would get you going quickly and reliably, and if you move on has good resale value ( unlike peco)

Do a search on Unitrack in the NGF search bar for  more detailed advice.

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?board=131.0
Best wishes

N

Ps I'm biased

I believe track in Farish sets is now Peco. I know half of nothing about DCC but the best advice I've read on the forum is to get to a show near you and ask DCC operators what they use and have a play if they allow you.
DCC Ready locos need running in on DC before you fit the chip of your choice
DCC Fitted locos can be run in on DCC

Quote from: gavin_t on August 23, 2019, 02:04:05 PM
Hi apologies if this is not the correct section but I was unsure where to place it.

Basically I am planning my first layout. 2x4 size and have zero N gauge stuff at present. 

Now upon visiting local model shops and seeking a bit of advice I was going to pick up a set. (Graham farish highlander) and purchase some extra track from there.
How ever I have since read mixed points from there on about the quality of the items included in the set and that it may be better to make a list and buy seperate?
Anyone got any recent experience of this and any words of wisdom?
What track ?
What controller (dcc)?

Basically looking for a double loop setup with a siding simular to below (without the raise crossover). And power source (want to go dcc) plus a locomotive to run on it to get me started.

A set is good as it gives you something that works out of the box.  However the Farish track and controller are very basic.  You will always need a DC controller even if you go to DCC to test locos, but if you plan to quickly go to DCC the Farish set controller is more than you need.

If you are going to DC then something like a Morley or Gaugemaster controller would be a good investment.

As for track, until you have practised with flexitrack set track is a good start.  If you are pinning it down then Farish track is ok for a test oval but KATO produce a very robust track and you will find a lot of modellers will sing its praises.

Osborne models are currently doing a GWR HST set with Dapol train and Kato track, add a good controller and you would be well set.

If you are planning your first layout, you might find this helpful.  I know I did.  The author is a regular contributor and is very helpful.

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35556.msg416493#msg416493

You mention a 4' x 2' layout.  If possible, you will probably be glad if you can manage 30" width.  This allows a more gentle curve.  On a double track oval you will be able to use Peco Setrack Nos 2 and 3 radii (or Kato equivalents, probably 315mm and 348mm) and still have a bit of space for scenic features.  Here's my little layout:



It's 48" x 30" and uses Peco Setrack.

Kato Unitrack is excellent although the points take up a lot of space.  The #6 points are very reliable, but the #4 points can give problems.  Not with Kato locomotives of course, as Kato is a system.  There is excellent content on the Forum about Kato points.

In the interest of balance I ought to point out that I used the Peco Setrack points and found them completely satisfactory.  Some modellers have had difficulties with these points, though.  Much appears to depend on the type of locomotives one is using on the layout.  And, probably, other factors as well.

Best wishes.

John

have a look at the DCC threads for a mass of conflicting advice  re controllers
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=2516.0

it boils down as to whether you prefer a Graphical ( mobile/pad) interface (+/_ a hand controller ( ie Z21 with Roco hand held option))

or a small numeric screen with lots of buttons and arcane formulae ( Digitrax, Gaugemaster. NCE etc)

look here for further confusion.

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?board=8.0

I am of course biased (Z21)

Please follow NewportN's advice, and go to shows and see/hear them in action.

details here: http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/exhibitions

TNGS (the N Gauge Show) near Warwick is a must if you can make it! 14/14 Sept.
http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/18100-MeridienneExhibitionsExhibition

Depending where you live, there are some DCC open days run by major dealers. Give us a hint? ( or add it to your profile) and we will see if the NGF can help.

nick R

Thanks for all the input so far much appreciated

I am based in Basildon Essex, thought it was on my profile 

All good helpful info. After looking into it more I may stick with plan A of the farish set.
At least I will have a full set to get me up and running. Basic controller may be best for me at first anyway as I will only be a small layout and limited rolling stock.

I think I will go with peco set track as that is what comes in the sets. Also they do track packs that will get me the layout design I want with a couple of tweaks. Was put off at first as people stated the scaling was off. But after seeing a few weathered and ballasted examples I think they look acceptable. Don't want to jump straight in with flexi and cause myself issues. 

Will see if I can extend my 4x2 to 30inches wide as more swallow turns sounds a good shout.

Thanks again all

Quote from: Snowwolflair on August 23, 2019, 05:49:40 PM

Quote from: gavin_t on August 23, 2019, 02:04:05 PM
Hi apologies if this is not the correct section but I was unsure where to place it.

Basically I am planning my first layout. 2x4 size and have zero N gauge stuff at present. 

Now upon visiting local model shops and seeking a bit of advice I was going to pick up a set. (Graham farish highlander) and purchase some extra track from there.
How ever I have since read mixed points from there on about the quality of the items included in the set and that it may be better to make a list and buy seperate?
Anyone got any recent experience of this and any words of wisdom?
What track ?
What controller (dcc)?

Basically looking for a double loop setup with a siding simular to below (without the raise crossover). And power source (want to go dcc) plus a locomotive to run on it to get me started.

A set is good as it gives you something that works out of the box.  However the Farish track and controller are very basic.  You will always need a DC controller even if you go to DCC to test locos, but if you plan to quickly go to DCC the Farish set controller is more than you need.

If you are going to DC then something like a Morley or Gaugemaster controller would be a good investment.

As for track, until you have practised with flexitrack set track is a good start.  If you are pinning it down then Farish track is ok for a test oval but KATO produce a very robust track and you will find a lot of modellers will sing its praises.

Osborne models are currently doing a GWR HST set with Dapol train and Kato track, add a good controller and you would be well set.

Just had a look at those Osborne sets. Seem like good kits, will have a look into the Kato track 

Good luck gavin. Any help questions etc fireaway we will do our best to help. Your welcome round the shed gang nb darren and bob. Welcome  to the fascinating world of ngauge. Chris

The Graham Farish "Highlander" set is an interesting one, and good value given what's in the box. But do bear in mind that the coaches especially wouldn't be seen much outside of the West Coast of Scotland, and while the Scottish Class 37s did stray across the boarder into northern England and even into Wales, they're really associated with the West Coast of Scotland. So a cracking set if you're planning on modelling Scotland, less useful if you're not!

One nice thing about modelling Scotland is that there are plenty of good prototypes to work from, with single track mainlines, relatively short trains (though just two coaches would be uncommon), and very charismatic stations and scenery. The key to a great layout is -- in my opinion -- that you know where and when it is, even without any trains on view. A Scottish layout, with a Caledonian Railway station, mountains, and plenty of pine trees, shouldn't be too difficult to recreate. The station may need to be scratch-built or kit-bashed, but trees and mountains are among the easier aspects of the hobby to master.

Personally, I'd set aside the "train set" track inside the box for running in your new locos. It's often said that DCC locos should be run in as DC locos first, and your Farish track will be fine for this. You can then use Peco Streamline or similar for your actual layout. If you were modelling Scotland, Flexitrack would be great for the long, gently curved single track winding its way through forests and past rocky hillsides. The station area would probably include a passing loop, so at least two points (perhaps Y-points) would be needed there, and perhaps a third point for a single siding. Timber trains are especially characteristic of the Scottish lines, but other possibilities include grain wagons for whiskey distilleries and long wheelbase Speedlink vans for military traffic. Mixed goods trains lasted longer in Scotland than almost anywhere else in the UK, and well into the 70s you could find things like two-axle vans, coal wagons and fuel tankers being hauled by a Type-2 diesel to some bleak outpost in the middle of nowhere!

Your 4x2 space gives plenty of potential here! Start simple, with a minimal track plan. Trust me, the more points, the more hassle! The most rewarding part of the hobby for many people is the scenery, because that's where your skills will develop most rapidly. Running happy trains through pretty scenery is lovely, and if you overcomplicate your track plan by trying to cram too many points and sidings into a small space, the layout stands a good risk of never really working properly.

Cheers, NeMo

What an excellent post! How are you managing to  squeeze the editorial job in there, mate?!

Totally agree with location recognisable without trains.

Only in the highlands, though! 

Quote from: Bealman on August 26, 2019, 10:47:41 AM
What an excellent post! How are squeezing the editorial job in there, mate!?

It was a pleasant break from NGS editing, which I was doing this morning and only just finished. While 5/19 is done now, I'm working on what will hopefully be the next supplement in time for 6/19.

Cheers, NeMo

rule 1 - you can run what you want ( because you like the look of it), with whatever stock you want, on whatever track system / combination you find easiest to use, and be happy!

seriously though, create a layout of track only first, and get the feel of locos, PSUs, points and simple wiring ( Kato track anyone??). then when you are getting into the hobby ( after the first 10 loco purchases) think about DCC etc.

Finally, plonk some track on a bit of board, and make a small diorama - then work out how long it will take to do the whole layout!!

ion the meantime maximise enjoyment and play trains.

(I'm still stuck in the layout phase after 35yrs!)

Quote from: NeMo on August 26, 2019, 09:11:08 AM
The Graham Farish "Highlander" set is an interesting one, and good value given what's in the box. But do bear in mind that the coaches especially wouldn't be seen much outside of the West Coast of Scotland, and while the Scottish Class 37s did stray across the boarder into northern England and even into Wales, they're really associated with the West Coast of Scotland. So a cracking set if you're planning on modelling Scotland, less useful if you're not!

One nice thing about modelling Scotland is that there are plenty of good prototypes to work from, with single track mainlines, relatively short trains (though just two coaches would be uncommon), and very charismatic stations and scenery. The key to a great layout is -- in my opinion -- that you know where and when it is, even without any trains on view. A Scottish layout, with a Caledonian Railway station, mountains, and plenty of pine trees, shouldn't be too difficult to recreate. The station may need to be scratch-built or kit-bashed, but trees and mountains are among the easier aspects of the hobby to master.

Personally, I'd set aside the "train set" track inside the box for running in your new locos. It's often said that DCC locos should be run in as DC locos first, and your Farish track will be fine for this. You can then use Peco Streamline or similar for your actual layout. If you were modelling Scotland, Flexitrack would be great for the long, gently curved single track winding its way through forests and past rocky hillsides. The station area would probably include a passing loop, so at least two points (perhaps Y-points) would be needed there, and perhaps a third point for a single siding. Timber trains are especially characteristic of the Scottish lines, but other possibilities include grain wagons for whiskey distilleries and long wheelbase Speedlink vans for military traffic. Mixed goods trains lasted longer in Scotland than almost anywhere else in the UK, and well into the 70s you could find things like two-axle vans, coal wagons and fuel tankers being hauled by a Type-2 diesel to some bleak outpost in the middle of nowhere!

Your 4x2 space gives plenty of potential here! Start simple, with a minimal track plan. Trust me, the more points, the more hassle! The most rewarding part of the hobby for many people is the scenery, because that's where your skills will develop most rapidly. Running happy trains through pretty scenery is lovely, and if you overcomplicate your track plan by trying to cram too many points and sidings into a small space, the layout stands a good risk of never really working properly.

Cheers, NeMo

Cheers for taking the time to post that.  Lots of good info.
From chatting to the owner of the local model show he was happy to trade the rolling stock from the highlander set to something more suited to my design if I so wished. Which was a nice bonus. 
I would love to model the Highlands as we had a great holiday in Scotland a couple of years back. Did the steam hauled train from Fort William to Mallaig and there is some spectacular scenery.
Not sure my modeling is up to that yet though!
Small suburban setting may be easier for me.

Quote from: gavin_t on August 27, 2019, 01:05:30 PM
From chatting to the owner of the local model show he was happy to trade the rolling stock from the highlander set to something more suited to my design if I so wished.

I'd be ever so slightly cautious here. The green-liveried coaches in that set are rare. Perhaps the only ones in that livery? I'm sure they'll become very collectible in due course. Swapping them for generic BR blue coaches would be more useful, yes, but less of an investment. That doesn't matter to everyone, of course, but worth mentioning.

Quote from: gavin_t on August 27, 2019, 01:05:30 PMNot sure my modeling is up to that yet though! Small suburban setting may be easier for me.

Not sure this is true at all! Rural landscapes are very easy to do, in the sense that you can buy all the materials needed easily and cheaply. Woodland Scenics make tonnes of great stuff, and nothing is as much fun (to me) as building rocks and cliffs. Mastering them is a very smooth process, with a few simple steps to get right. Model trees come in all sorts, from generic bottlebrush types adequate for forests, through to whitemetal models perfect for centrepiece specimens. Again, Woodland Scenics make some good value packs of these, the plastic armature pine trees being ideal for Highlands setting.

Urban or suburban environments are much tougher to nail. For sure you can plonk down a few Metcalfe kits on a bit of grey-painted hardboard you're calling a road. But very few layouts approached in that way look anything other than forced caricatures of urban environments. Once you start looking at layouts such as Grahame Hedge's "Stoney Lane Depot" or Neil Cooper's "Horseblock Lane", you start seeing how much more effort is needed to 'nail it'. There's a lot more scratch building, and that needs to be a higher standard. Scratch building a farmyard shack or even a small cottage is much easier than doing a tower block or warehouse.

For your first layout, there's a lot to be said for going rural (whether Scottish or otherwise) simply because you'll run up something that looks nice, more quickly and with fewer compromises.

Cheers, NeMo