Quote from: ohlavache on January 09, 2019, 01:09:40 PM
- multiple units: underground stock 1938, Derby Leightweight (single unit or 2-car)

The Derby Lightweight is an interesting choice, but I don't really think a priority. Why? For the BR era at least, we already have 4 different rural (low density seating) DMUs in the forms of classes 101, 108, 121, and 122.

What we're obviously lacking are the high density units that worked the suburban runs, like the 117s for the Paddington services or the 116s for the Birmingham services.

Put another way, it's easy enough to model a BR-era branchline but much more difficult to properly model a BR-era suburban line.

Cheers, NeMo

Please Sir, can I have a Graham Farish Class 47/0 in 1964 XP64 livery? 

Paddy

I think that the Class 28 is a notable omission from the range of RTR Diesels. Given the D5705 restoration project at the East Lancs Railway it seems like a missed opportunity so far.

Quote from: njee20 on January 09, 2019, 01:21:03 PM
I principally agree with people saying "I can't" if they've not tried, although that could mean "I'm not prepared to throw the money at it to find out because my previous experience tells me it won't go well", which is basically the same. I've flirted with O gauge since forever, and have nearly bought several Heljan 60s. I'm not going to buy an O gauge kit because I'll massacre it, but I've never tried one. To that end "I can't" build an O gauge loco!

Hi

This is not a go at you but taking your example of not buying an O gauge loco kit. Start with something a lot simpler such as a wagon and build the confidence.

When I was sixteen I bought a 4mm Craftsman C12 etched loco kit. I had no idea what I was doing and didn't manage to get very far. I sold the kit and vowed never to touch etched brass again. At the age of thirty five I rejoined the NGS and noticed they did a kit for the Cartic 4 but it involved etched components.

I bought some 2mm SA chassis kits and practiced taking advice about the way I was soldering. A year later I then built my first Cartic 4. Since then I have built numerous etched kits including the N'Thusiasts Tamper and they no longer hold any fear for me.

My problem was not using a separate flux and had I known about liquid flux when I was younger that C12 may have got built.

We seem to live in an era of want it now. Some of my models have taken years to build as I get stuck with a particular aspect and I put it away until I think of a solution. Sometimes I get bored so my rake of eight Anhydrous Ammonia tankers took me ten years to complete after the initial flurry of building four.

I realise that kit building is not for everyone but people should at least give it a go if there is something they want as they might surprise themselves.

Cheers

Paul

Mine was (sort of) just an example. I don't have an O gauge layout, and if I did then it would be something fairly loco-heavy, as so many are, so acquiring rakes of wagons to improve seems a largely pointless task.

There's still a massive leap before you spend £700 on a JLTRT loco kit, no matter how many wagons you've built in preparation.

O isn't the best example, as I think the majority of participants are more happy to build a kit than in OO or N gauge, but the point still stands. It may just be time related too. Just as many people buy baseboards or use other pre-built items you could scratchbuild, "can't" can simply mean "don't want to because it's not something I enjoy/want to spend limited time doing", which is also fine.

Quote from: ohlavache on January 09, 2019, 01:09:40 PM

Quote from: Skyline2uk on January 09, 2019, 12:47:24 PM
Touched on briefly but to add my two pence to the "gaps" in BR Diesel / Electric RTR:

AC electric

81-85
87 (Farish one old and out of production)
90 (Farish one old and out of production, surely the imminent 00 needs a shrink ray?)
91 (Farish one old and out of production)

Diesel

Class 59. Been mentioned as long as the 142s and much further behind in development.

I admit that's a small amount of locos and therefore I have little to moan about (and I cant afford many anyway).

Ref kits: I have started a few and my biggest problem is time. I would love to run a rake of tipplers (behind a 59!) and say "yes I made those", but a full time job and approaching 5 week old junior mean that's an aspiration.

At least with RTR stuff I can admire it.

Skyline2uk

Question from a non-British guy.
My wish list for RTR models is as follows:
- diesel: classes 07, 17 and 23
- electric: class 71
- steam: class W4 Peckett 0-4-0ST (or at least class B2 Peckett 0-6-0ST), 4-4-2 'Atlantic' class H2/C1
- multiple units: underground stock 1938, Derby Leightweight (single unit or 2-car)
I can't figure out if they are part of the gaps or if some, not to say all, of them are "unrealistic expectations" as said by njee20.
What's your view?

Just my thoughts on your diesel picks (await better educated response from the collective);

My initial statement was regarding the holes as I see them in BR mainline locos that have or still exists and have done for 20 years plus (actually the class 83s barely meet that criteria if I am being honest).

Class 07: 14 units, mainly used in one area, 15 years. Actually, as 7 were preserved this might be of interest to somebody.

Class 17: 117 units but lasted as little as 5 years(!). Attempted by at least one manufacture, who knows if another will pick it up.

Class 23: 10 units, lasted 12 years. Probably the most limited of the three but again picked up by one manufacture (DJM? Not sure of status).

So as it happens, on the diesel front, I don't think these are that unrealistic at all.

No idea on Steam!

Skyline2uk

Quote from: Dr Al on January 09, 2019, 12:26:49 AM
... something built by someone (to whatever standard) is somewhat more interesting that a dull RTR only world....

With respect, some of us just don't want to build locomotives! We are willing to model landscape and buildings, maybe (to the necessary extent), but we can love locomotives and rolling stock and want to have models of the real thing without building them.

I've been an art collector all my life. Early on, I read an opinion that a good reproduction was better than a poor original.  Being interested in collecting originals, I wasn't convinced. After forty years I absolutely DO agree. While you may be satisfied with your locomotive build (which is perfectly acceptable), many of us would not be satisfied. I don't recall ever seeing a Kit-built locomotive that satisfied my visual sensitivities.

Leon

Quote from: Leon on January 09, 2019, 04:19:17 PM

Quote from: Dr Al on January 09, 2019, 12:26:49 AM
... something built by someone (to whatever standard) is somewhat more interesting that a dull RTR only world....

With respect, some of us just don't want to build locomotives! We are willing to model landscape and buildings, maybe (to the necessary extent), but we can love locomotives and rolling stock and want to have models of the real thing without building them.

I've been an art collector all my life. Early on, I read an opinion that a good reproduction was better than a poor original.  Being interested in collecting originals, I wasn't convinced. After forty years I absolutely DO agree. While you may be satisfied with your locomotive build (which is perfectly acceptable), many of us would not be satisfied. I don't recall ever seeing a Kit-built locomotive that satisfied my visual sensitivities.

Leon

Amen brother, eloquently put.

Quote from: Leon on January 09, 2019, 04:19:17 PM

Quote from: Dr Al on January 09, 2019, 12:26:49 AM
... something built by someone (to whatever standard) is somewhat more interesting that a dull RTR only world....

While you may be satisfied with your locomotive build (which is perfectly acceptable), many of us would not be satisfied. I don't recall ever seeing a Kit-built locomotive that satisfied my visual sensitivities.

Leon

This! I have no interest in kit building, and believe only a small portion of the modelling community have the skill to do it passably.

At the risk of straying slightly off the 'British' N Gauge title of this topic, Can I ask our overseas members if Steam railway modelling is as strongly catered for where they live ? And what proportion of modelling is of a modern day as opposed to Steam?

Quote from: Madann01 on January 09, 2019, 05:33:05 PM
At the risk of straying slightly off the 'British' N Gauge title of this topic, Can I ask our overseas members if Steam railway modelling is as strongly catered for where they live ? And what proportion of modelling is of a modern day as opposed to Steam?

It would appear that Japanese railways are reasonably well catered for with regard to kits. The site/blog below is in Japanese but Chrome does a reasonable job of translating it and it shows some interesting builds.

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/handycrafts.htm

If only we had someone capable/willing to manufacture locomotive wheels... 

Since an operation 3 years ago (time flies, eh?) I have shaky hands so while I might attempt a wagon build, painting and the like, I cannot manage soldering or small work like that. There is a world of difference between buying a wagon kit and buying a loco body and sourcing/buying a chassis for it to go on.
I don't have the knowledge to know what size wheels, wheel spacing etc is required.
I don't have the necessary skill to buy a poor runner for the chassis and then fix the chassis.
I don't have the physical needs for building a loco.
I do have the disposable income to buy RTR or commission someone for a build if they are willing.
I know their results will far exceed anything I can even attempt.

The experts also ought to consider this. If shedloads of us started trying to build our own locos your source of chassis might potentially dry up!

Like njee20 I tire of being preached at to build my own, the editor of a certain journal being one of the main offenders. I know my limits.

I have been following this thread with interest. I have no real opinion on how things have progressed in n gauge over the years, as I have only been involved for the last three years. However, I am inclined to agree with Mick @Newportnobby . I do not have the necessary skills at the moment to build my own locomotives, although I am okay with things like 'Metcalfe' kits and the 'Peco' wagon kits, although who knows what the future might bring? Having said that, although an extremely young 67, ( ), I have to wear glasses when doing anything close at hand and am starting with arthritis in both hands, so I can not see things getting any better. I am fortunate that I also have some disposable income that allows me to buy RTR as and when something catches my eye.  But good luck and well done to those who are capable of building their own models.

I had no idea that there was this much apathy and, in some cases, hostility towards kit/scratch building and/or those who take the time to try and encourage others to have a go at these things - some (not necessarily here) admittedly, need to work on their delivery from time to time.

While I can only speak for myself, I post my own efforts on here for two reasons; one to get feedback on what I can do better and, two, to try and inspire others that they can progress and learn new skills. Go back ten years and I would have never dreamed that I would be doing what I'm doing now. Similarly with the prints I offer for sale, I try and make these as straight forward as possible (always test building and making refinements as necessary) and, if something requires too much modification or too many donor parts from many models, I don't offer it for sale.

Quote from: Newportnobby on January 09, 2019, 06:03:38 PM
The experts also ought to consider this. If shedloads of us started trying to build our own locos your source of chassis might potentially dry up!

As I understand it, the reason why Farish stopped selling chassis separately is that there wasn't the demand to make such a product commercially viable. Perhaps if more people were building and asking for them, they might consider revising this policy.

While I do appreciate that there are those who find no appeal in kit/scratch building or physically cannot build, I am deeply saddened that attempts to try to inspire others to attempt things they would otherwise not tried, is looked on so negatively and has created such a strong reaction.

My apologies if any attempts in the past to encourage on my part have been taken negatively by others.

Quote from: Atso on January 09, 2019, 05:55:05 PM

Quote from: Madann01 on January 09, 2019, 05:33:05 PM
At the risk of straying slightly off the 'British' N Gauge title of this topic, Can I ask our overseas members if Steam railway modelling is as strongly catered for where they live ? And what proportion of modelling is of a modern day as opposed to Steam?

It would appear that Japanese railways are reasonably well catered for with regard to kits. The site/blog below is in Japanese but Chrome does a reasonable job of translating it and it shows some interesting builds.

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/handycrafts.htm

If only we had someone capable/willing to manufacture locomotive wheels... 

What a wonderful website, I just spent the last hour just browsing and I have already come away with half a dozen technical ideas