Only available direct from Dapol

Train pack options available

https://www.dapol.co.uk/shop/preorder/N-Gauge-Preorder

Quote
.. Deposit £0.00 ...
.. Estimated delivery date: Q4 2018 ...
.. The project is conditional on reaching a sufficiently large number of pre-orders, tooling will not start until this requirement is met. ...

I'm sorry, I don't mean to come across as a constant critic of Dapol, but they make it so easy. How on earth are they going to deliver a product between 1 and 3 months from now, when tooling hasn't even begun yet? And tooling won't begin, until and unless sufficient pre-orders are received for a product that costs.. ah, we don't know how much it costs, do we(!)?

£150 For the power cars, £120 for 4 coaches, £50 for the two car buffet pack

Yes... at the bottom of their item description page/s it says

"The project is conditional on reaching a sufficiently large number of pre-orders, tooling will not start until this requirement is met"

So the Q4 2018 date does indeed seem extremely optimistic, given that they've only just now asked for, effectively, expressions of interest. I don't have any axe to grind against Dapol and hope this goes ahead but the way it's presented does seem a bit disingenuous... when they say "Dapol ARE be producing..." ... "...The model WILL BE available..." ... "... we are now producing the model..." it sounds like a foregone conclusion when it's anything but.

Compare and contrast with Revolution.

I have no axe to grind or attachment to either company. Just giving my opinion based on what I see as a potential customer.

Looking at what they've put on their website, it's just confusing (and I am probably better-informed about HST details than many of their potential buyers will be).

Why don't they just do like Revolution Trains did and offer it as fixed formation sets rather than in a 'bitty' format like this. The formations did vary, but the closest to prototypical is probably two power cars and eight coaches (two of them buffets) - but it appears that you can't buy this and if you want the standard formation have to buy the two extra coaches as well (those went fairly early on - they became part of the royal train, where they still remain) - I don't believe it ever ran with more than 8 carriages.

And as mentioned, how much does it cost?

And why haven't they removed that ridiculous 'HST-P' description, which they made up (and which was pointed out on their own forum as being fictional). The train was referred to as either 'Prototype HST' or 'HSDT'.

The advice at the bottom of each page about forming a full set is also dubious - the power cars are listed as 'Choose desired livery' - actually, the full yellow ends were applied when the power cars were in deparmental use (used for APT testing, among other things), and the whole protoype HST train never ran with the power cars in this livery so if anyone forms a full set with them it'll be wrong (if anyone wants to do that it's obviously up to them - but the advice should be right). This too was pointed out on their own forum the first time this model was announced.

On the Dapol stand today Andy said that if they get enough interest they would start fairly soon. The CADs are done and he estimated a delivery time of around this time next year.

Quote from: Shropshire Lad on September 08, 2018, 04:20:57 PM
On the Dapol stand today Andy said that if they get enough interest they would start fairly soon. The CADs are done and he estimated a delivery time of around this time next year.

Well, the way they are doing it is probably going to reduce the potential interest (as was pointed out to them last time...)

Indeed very easy to question and criticise dapol, and as I am sure we have all been told if there you have nothing good to say don't say anything. So I won't but very disappointed. #BoB/WC

Quote from: leachsprite4 on September 08, 2018, 05:43:47 PM
Indeed very easy to question and criticise dapol, and as I am sure we have all been told if there you have nothing good to say don't say anything. So I won't but very disappointed. #BoB/WC

Imagine the scene, Dapol headquarters...

Executive 1: "So, Revolution are racking up the hits with their Pendolino, and Bachmann have still have lion's share of the market. What we need is to announce something big, something that'll get people talking about Dapol again."

Executive 2: "And something that'll sell well, too. Our O gauge stuff is making a good return, but N gauge isn't so hot. What sold well last time?"

Executive 1: "Well, the Class 73s in Pullman livery sold out almost before they hit the shelves."

Executive 2: "Good point. So more 73s, definitely. But this time in some short-lived livery nobody cares about. How about Network Rail yellow? Like that twin-pack of yellow 86s that never, ever ended up on any store's bargain shelf."

Executive 1: "What else is the market crying out for?"

Executive 2: "Over on the NGF they won't stop asking about the Class 50s, the Pacers, or the Bullied light pacifics. Then there are those regular polls over on RMWeb. Top of their list were King Arthur class steam locos and Class 117 DMUs. We've made smashing models of Schools class loco and the Class 121, which are quite similar, so we know we can do those well."

Executive 1: "Right. So not them then! That would be far too boring. How's about the prototype HST? Where was that on the wish-list?"

Executive 2: "Number 53."

Executive 1: "Perfect. A stealthy, imaginative choice that's bound to take the market by storm! Get the HST models we've got, glue some buffers onto the front, and off we go! Should sell dozens of them, at least. That'll keep the bean-counters happy."

Executive 2: "It'll require a bit more than just buffers to get right. And the coaches were different too."

Executive 1: "Announce it anyway, say we're delivering it in a couple of months. Nobody cares about the coaches. They're just something to pull, aren't they? Anyway, even if it takes two years to get right, we don't want Revolution sneakily stealing our thunder by making the same model! So let's get this show on the road!"

Executive 2: "Fair enough. Should we bother asking for help so we get the paint job perfect this time, or just let the Chinese guys figure it out from some JPEGs they grabbed off Flickr?"

Executive 1: "What-evs. Nobody really notices these things. N gauge is so small, you can't really tell, can you?"

Cheers, NeMo

  Brilliant.

@NeMo I didn't realise you knew so much about Dapol, how long have you worked there??  😂🤣😂😂🤣😂😂🤣😂

NeMo, that sounds scarily real... hope this can be pulled off tho.

Cheers, Timmo

Quote from: Lindi on September 09, 2018, 11:37:45 AM
I see the Dapol bashers are having a field day on this thread.

I think you've missed the point!

The fact that they can't get the name of it right, give incomplete information on how to form a set (with regard to liveries - the full yellow cabs are not suitable for the full train but this isn't mentioned; indeed it's implied that they are) and are selling it in such a 'bitty' way could well lead to there not being enough expressions of interest for it to go ahead.

It is particular disappointing in that the incorrect name and the livery point were raised on their own forum first time round. They have then re-announced it with the same errors in place.

It also seems daft that you have to buy two extra coaches in order to form a typical 8-car set. The logical way to have sold it would have been options for a 2+8 set (including the buffets), or a 2+2 set (as they normally do with HSTs).

Only the blinkered can claim that raising legitimate issues is 'Dapol-bashing'. It's not - many of us want to to see this go ahead, and not getting the basics right isn't going to help Dapol in getting advance orders.

The simple question is do we want it or not or do we put our energy into quibbling while the opportunity sinks.

The options are straight forward and I have already placed my interest in a full train.

Quote from: Lindi on September 09, 2018, 11:37:45 AM
I see the Dapol bashers are having a field day on this thread.

They are very democratic though they bash Farish DJM Revolution etc in equal measures.  It must be in their nature to moan.