Quote from: GordonW on May 26, 2018, 12:56:48 PM


Thanks every body for your help and comments. hey are all greatly appreciated.

But I am as  confused as ever, perhaps I should just go-ahead add do it


Gordon

The difficulty is quite genuinely that there's no one "right" answer, unless one is obsessive about one method of control or  the other. The reason most everyone has asked you about your layout plans is that it's very difficult to give you unbiased advice without knowing that.

E.g. If all you want to do is run a tank engine round a train set oval without sound or lights, on a very tight budget, then go DC. If you want a huge fully signalled layout with sound or a motive power depot with dozens of locos, computer control and money's no object then DCC is firmly in play.

Give us a clue... What are you hoping to do in the hobby?

Quote from: GordonW on May 26, 2018, 12:56:48 PM
... but I am as  confused as ever, perhaps I should just go-ahead add do it

Have you made a simple list of the things you think you'd like to be able to do (as folk have suggested)?  It may sway your decision.    Arguably DCC is the "modern way" but plain DC works very well and is cheaper.


I have experience of both, though in different scales. As an IT developer I like the integration possibilities of DCC and understanding how it all works.  Yet I've stuck to DC for N scale as I have a large collection of models from current production going back to locos made in the 60s and 70s which I don't want to hack around to fit DCC decoders, and with easily 100+ locos it would cost way too much to convert now! I find designing and wiring up the layout with sections etc. is part of the fun.  Sound in N really doesn't impress me at all, but many folk love it of course. In G scale (for which I do run DCC) sound is impressive, but even then I tire of it after a while and turn it off.

My own layout started as a reverse copy of Peter Denny's Leighton Buzzard. After that, it extended, or grew like Topsy, without any major plan!

Having said that, I would not recommend it!

Plan carefully first. 

 thanks again every one,


I have 1400 mm in length and 750 width. Not much room, but I did think I could perhaps run two trains and maybe with a bit of jiggery pokery a third

I am still looking out for a plan nothing so far


Gordon

I suggest you download anyrail software and doodle for a bit. You can download for free and have up to 50 pieces of track. You have a tight space and it's important to see what will fit in.

Good luck finding a plan. I'd definitely endorse Chris's suggestion of AnyRail. Too many drawn plans don't actually fit the nominal space that they are intended for once you try to implement them with real track pieces.

But back to the original question. If you wan to run two, preferably three, trains, and are starting entirely from scratch, I'd be very tempted to go down the DCC route from the outset. For a few reasons:

• Running multiple trains simultaneously needs multiple DC controllers, but only one DCC controller (assuming we are talking continuous runs of some sort). This erodes the price differential between starting up in DC as compared to a DCC starter set. And although you will obviously have to pay for decoders in the locos (or buy DCC fitted ones, which amounts to the same thing), but you won't end up in the position that ntpntpntp referred to, of sometime down the line having a large stud of locos that are prohibitively expensive to chip.
• DCC doesn't require as much advance planning as DC, because you are driving the trains, not the track. In general, DC requires you to have a fairly clear idea at the construction stage of what train movements you will be conducting on the layout so that you can isolate the necessary sections. Yes, you can change things later, but at best it's a faff.
• Similarly, you can decide at a later stage to add features, without a huge wiring overhead. I had no intention of signalling my layout when I started, or of installing lighting, but under DCC it was trivial (although admittedly not cheap). More than one of my past layout projects was abandoned because I lost interest during the construction and wiring of the control panel for things like that.
• 
  If you want to venture into loco lighting and sound, DCC is your friend.
  

On the downside of DCC I'd say:

• Finances - it is more expensive. That can be mitigated by using kits from MERG, etc, but for most people, it will be more expensive than DC
  
• 
  You're putting little computers in your locos and driving them round your layout. To get the best out of them, you may well want to configure the decoders individually, although they will work with minimal tweaking - just the setting of a loco address. But if you do want to tweak them, be sure that you are happy wading through detailed manuals describing the decoder "Configuration Variables". Sadly these manuals are not all well written or fully explanatory. On the other hand, DCC doesn't require as clear an understanding of electrical wiring as setting up a full-on common return cab control system can.
  
• 
  Although the situation is steadily improving, be sure to understand whether the locos you want to run on your layout are available either DCC Ready or Fitted. If they aren't, all is not lost by any means,  but you will have to hard wire decoder chips into spaces that were never intended for them (or pay someone else to do it.)
  

That said, I'm sure a DC exponent could produce a similar list arguing the other way. There's an awful lot of personal preference in all this.

Personally, I've been delighted that I took the plunge on DCC for my layout, which is much the size of yours. It's had its frustrations, learning curve and expense, absolutely. But for me the flexibility has been great. I've a fully signalled layout, some lighting, all points controlled with minimal extra wiring hassle. (And two sound equipped locos.) Although I'm perfectly capable of doing it, wiring control panels bored me witless, and I know I wouldn't have installed many of these things if I had had to tear a panel apart, then redesign and rewire it time and again when I changed my mind.

Hope that helps.

@Nick
From an old DC dinosaur, that is an extremely well written and cogent piece of the contrasts between DC and DCC. If you want to hold off for a week or so to check if anyone violently disagrees with you, then I would ask you add this to the tail end of my Beginners Guide, if that's OK with you?

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35556.msg416493#msg416493

Yes, by all means. I tried to keep it balanced, given that I obviously have a preference.

Quote from: Nick on May 28, 2018, 02:37:25 PM
Yes, by all means. I tried to keep it balanced, given that I obviously have a preference.

You succeeded Nick. Very well balanced and presented post.

Alec. (a newbie who decided to go with DCC).

I am DC !

but, if  you  want  the opportunity of sound then it has  to  be   DCC.

Quote from: fisherman on May 28, 2018, 05:05:08 PM
I am DC !

but, if  you  want  the opportunity of sound then it has  to  be   DCC.

If you want the first person (driver) sound then I agree although I am still to be convinced by the "depth" of sound you can get from a N gauge speaker. If you want third person sound (someone watching a train go by) then I disagree.  I prefer a big speaker under the baseboard giving the complete train sound. I know this works because when I used it at Swindon museum people kept looking out of the window to see what train was passing outside. With the right speaker I can make the floor vibrate as the Hymek passes but I have been banned from doing this at home and wouldn't dare do it at an exhibition. But it does give a great experience of a train going by. The sound I use is taken from video of preserved locos and edited with the free Audacity MP3 editor to fit the time it takes for a train to pass through.
I have posted this video before but it gives a feel for the sound.

Thank you for this film, Chris.

I hadn't seen it before and it is wonderful.  The diesels are very good, of course, but, for me, the star of the show is the steam double-header whistling for the tunnel.  Reminded me of one of the late Peter Handford's recordings.

John

Thank for that excelleent explanation of the differences between the two systems. Very clear and well considered Thanks again. I is looking as if I will go the the dcc option.

I have tried rail modeller express the language is German so I think that is a no no This is the trouble with using a Mac the choices are limited Any ideas anyone

Thanks again

Gordon

I used RailModeller Pro, which has English, are you sure there isn't an option somewhere?

Quote from: GordonW on May 29, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
I is looking as if I will go the the dcc option.

Gordon

Great choice, you won't regret it as it opens so many doors.