Quote from: njee20 on March 26, 2017, 08:38:49 PM
I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but I'd not be surprised if Kato made 10 times the volume of Farish or Dapol, and that brings huge economies of scale.

You're definitely *not* wrong!

That said, since Kato *do* make some European outline models (not least of all the continental version of the Class 66) it'd be interesting to know how many of those are sold.

If Kato made a UK liveried Class 66 to European N gauge, would it sell? I believe that some freight rolling stock is already made that operates on both sides of the channel tunnel, so the basics of a modern era freight railway might be made in European N without much bother.

Cheers, NeMo

Quote from: NeMo on March 26, 2017, 08:30:05 PM

Quote from: GreatBigBlue on March 26, 2017, 08:17:36 PM
I didn't say I didn't want fine detail just not OTT for the size of the damn things. I'm for smart scale moulding not dirty great pipes and handrails which are over scale anyway. Kato have very crisp mouldings and look just fine. Plus if you want to run trains not just look at them British models are  compared to them.

I've got a Kato SD40 that was secondhand when I bought it, and is probably the best part of 20 years old. But it's got to be said, despite the plastic handrails and the lack of glue-on bits, it looks and works perfectly. It's got a good weight to it, and the flywheel mechanism gives the thing very smooth acceleration and braking. The grain-of-wheat lights have a realistic glow to them very different to the nonsensically bright white LEDs we're used to these days.

The wheel flanges *are* a bit deep, so it tends to drag on ballasted Code-55 track (at least when I'm doing the ballasting!) but it's otherwise lovely.

What UK modellers aren't getting are locomotives that balance reliability with detailing in the way Kato manage to do. Kato don't seem to feel the need to model every rivet and handrail in finely etched brass or folded steel, but instead manage to nail the look-and-feel of the loco nevertheless. It's a tragedy that Kato aren't interested in the UK market. 

Cheers, NeMo

Yes! Can you imagine? They would either up everyone's game, or corner the market. Oh...hurts thinking about it.

One of my main issues is that I'm NOT handy and I'm terrified at the prospect of having to doing little electrical/wiring/soldering/adjustment things to get/keep my loco running. Although I'm forging ahead with my British N-Gauge dreams, I must say when I order US-image stuff...I get excited...when I order British-image stuff...I get nervous...

Quote from: NeMo on March 26, 2017, 08:42:50 PMKato *do* make some European outline models (not least of all the continental version of the Class 66) it'd be interesting to know how many of those are sold.

If Kato made a UK liveried Class 66 to European N gauge, would it sell? I believe that some freight rolling stock is already made that operates on both sides of the channel tunnel, so the basics of a modern era freight railway might be made in European N without much bother.

Yep, you can get 1:160 TIA "silver bullet" china clay tanks and IKA Megafret flats at least. My concern would be how they'd look next to other trains, rather than intra-train inconsistencies.

The economies of scale will apply across the board after all - even if their 66s don't sell many they'll use the same mechanism as their US and Japanese models which have sold in droves.

In what way? You mean if Dapol sold 10 times as many models then they'd do better...? Not sure that's nail/head, more economics basics!

Quote from: njee20 on March 26, 2017, 08:57:11 PM
Yep, you can get 1:160 TIA "silver bullet" china clay tanks and IKA Megafret flats at least. My concern would be how they'd look next to other trains, rather than intra-train inconsistencies.

I'd suggest not even trying to mix with other trains. A freight-only branch in the 2010s could easily be modelled with just 66s and the kinds of wagons you mention. European cars, lorries and lifting equipment could easily be used for freight depot details, and if you're scratchbuilding or kit-bashing buildings, the minor scale difference won't be a big deal.

In fact, sounds rather a fun project... 

Cheers, NeMo

I don't understand. How is that related to anything that's been discussed, or a class 50? Or Dapol?

Hello all,

Some years ago a well known model retailer approached Kato with a view to commissioning a 1:148 scale Class 66.

Their minimum order quantity was 10,000 units, and that was without taking accoint of the different lighting clusters, standard v low emission etc.  The project stalled.

Cheers

Ben A.

Interesting!

The DCC compatibility would be a significant barrier for me, I don't like those drop in PCBs, but otherwise I'd happily have a number. However, would I replace any of my 20 or so Farish and Dapol ones...? No, they all work just fine. I suspect that's the rub.

I'm still unconvinced of the relevance of the kettle on the previous page. It's entirely different moulding to a diesel, even if the fidelity is great. It's all apples:oranges anyway, so an entirely moot point.

Wasn't it earlier discussed that Kato had their own factory... They aren't trying to get slots in another production line owned by others and more than likely have their own team to build up the molds.

These two facts make Kato unique in what they can achieve, especially as Ben says, they deal with a minimum of 10,000 Units. This could be for outsiders/commission jobs only though...

Quote from: Nik96 on March 26, 2017, 10:23:53 PM
These two facts make Kato unique in what they can achieve, especially as Ben says, they deal with a minimum of 10,000 Units. This could be for outsiders/commission jobs only though...

Yep - 10,000 is a 'small batch' for outsiders/commission jobs... For their own releases they're looking for 4 or 5 times that as the minimum run...

Quote from: PLD on March 27, 2017, 07:09:15 PM

Quote from: Nik96 on March 26, 2017, 10:23:53 PM
These two facts make Kato unique in what they can achieve, especially as Ben says, they deal with a minimum of 10,000 Units. This could be for outsiders/commission jobs only though...

Yep - 10,000 is a 'small batch' for outsiders/commission jobs... For their own releases they're looking for 4 or 5 times that as the minimum run...

40-50,000 models of one type albeit across liveries... I find those sorts of sales figures hard to digest. Probably because we're constantly reminded this is a dying hobby in this country but I've heard that the far east still love their trains just like we used to.

The Japanese are more into N gauge than the UK, probably because house space is at more of a premium. The population of Japan is about twice that of the UK. These to factors must have quite a big effect on volume.

Likewise in the States, the population is circa 5 times the UK. This larger volume gives greater opportunity to amortise tooling, own factories and improve quality

Hi there,

It is very difficult to quantify the numbers of N gauge enthusiasts, as there are so many factors to consider.  Continental or British?  Modeller or Collector?  N Gauge only, or mixed scale?  Serious enthusiast or one-off purchaser?

I have seen estimates that there are 25000-40000 enthusiasts in the UK, whereas in Japan there are several million.

This may seem hard to believe, but when you look at websites such as HobbySearch http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/ which have literally dozens of new models coming to the market every week, and compare that to the release rate of Farish and Dapol models, it does become more plausible.

Cheers

Ben A.

Hi Ben,

25-40K "modellers" sounds realistic given the circulation of the monthly model railway magazines.  If British N gauge is 10% of the market then this would indicate 2.5-4K modellers.

Paddy

Quote from: Paddy on March 28, 2017, 02:02:07 PM
Hi Ben,

25-40K "modellers" sounds realistic given the circulation of the monthly model railway magazines.  If British N gauge is 10% of the market then this would indicate 2.5-4K modellers.

Paddy

Try doubling that to best part of 20% of the market. Given the NGS has approx 6k members and there are still significant numbers of N gauge modellers who aren't members I'm sure that 2.5k-4k would be a gross underestimate.

Cheers, Mike