I've heard a vague rumour there's a little one somewhere in Birmingham this weekend that may have a layout or two visiting

Now that Exhibition is one I find to be just to much to take in....

Quote from: MikeDunn on November 24, 2015, 09:51:24 PM
I've heard a vague rumour there's a little one somewhere in Birmingham this weekend that may have a layout or two visiting

Being pedantic the NEC is in Solihull not Birmingham. Same applies to Birmingham Airport and Birmingham International. I think Solihull are fairly happy though because they get all the business rates.

One comment about layout videos on YouTube.

I've uploaded videos where the train is running beautifully smoothly, only to find the video shows it jerking.

How many times have you tried to photograph a moving object with a pocket digital camera and missed due to the calculation time between pressing the shutter and the photo being taken?  It never happened with old-fashioned cameras that used film.

The cheap digital cameras do take time to calculate the exposure and focus. That means a frame is often repeated while the camera recalculates.  Hence jerky videos.

That of course still doesn't cover poor operators.  "You can't get the staff" applies to any exhibition layout - regular operators become unavailable at short notice and substitutes aren't necessarily as competent.

I attend 15 to 20 shows a year, and standards are improving steadily.

Les

I'm lucky to get to one every ten years where I live 

Nobody want to see my layout  :'(

I have been thinking about recent exhibitions and the standard of the layouts. The first thing I have to say is that there are many layouts with exquisite modelling to a very high standard and a lot of work has been done to get them to be so. I fully appreciate this as I have my own exhibition layout and I would say I am an average modeller, not a great one. I readily admit that lot of the modelling I see is to a better standard than I could do.

So why start a new thread on this subject? Well whilst the quality of stock and scenery has improved greatly over the last 30 years or so, layout design seems to have remained largely static. It is just my opinion, and others may well disagree, but the vast majority of layouts start with flat baseboards, track is then laid (often filling as much baseboard space as possible) and then some scenery is built up round the edge. This spoils it for me no matter how good the modelling may be. In real life land is very rarely flat and, according to the gradient profiles, neither is rail line. Goods yards are usually level but often at a different height to the main line which is usually on a gradient. Same applies to motive power depots etc. For an example still in use today take a look at Tysley. Sometimes layouts have a river or such but created by just a short dip in an otherwise flat board.

This could of course just be something that bugs me and nobody else but I would like to see more thought put into layout planning to make a railway look like it has been forged through the landscape rather than a bit of scenery added after the track was laid. There are notable exceptions but only a small number.

Other things that can spoil an otherwise great layout, in my opinion, are
1. Track plans that give no thought to prototype practice, although of course there will always be a need for compromise because we simple could fit in everything that real railways have.
2. Poor operation. Operators and stock should be  well tested before going to an exhibition. Things can and will go wrong on the day but it is clear that a fair few layouts (and operators) have not been debugged before a show. Also regular running of trains is something to be aimed for. One layout last weekend had 8 operators but only seemed to be able to make on train movement every couple of minutes.
3. Trying to fix broken locos during the exhibition. I saw examples of locos trying to be repaired on the running tracks on two different exhibits. If a loco stops working at a show put it back in the box and fix it later.
4. Perhaps controversially, unpainted locos and incomplete layouts. Some may like to see a loco still in brass being used but personally I just see it as something not ready to be used on a layout. A layout under construction is fine if it is at an exhibition for the purpose of the builders discussing building layouts with visitors. A layout that isn't complete but is being run normally is simply one that is not ready to be exhibited.

It is important that we don't have any insults or anger on this topic. I'm just stating an opinion with reasoning and wonder what others think? I certainly wouldn't point a stick at anyone and, like I say, I fully appreciate the work that has been done and don't want to appear to be putting down anyone's efforts.Its about reasoned discussion about what is important to paying visitors and what isn't. Also this is not about telling anyone how they should build a layout, I'm just saying what is important to me and accepting that others will have different views. For instance I use code 80 track which I know many would say is either naff or even unacceptable for an exhibition layout.

This old chestnut certainly comes up on here from time to time and is certain to divide opinions.
We all want something different from exhibitions.
Personally, I don't really care about the operation of the layout. I like to see inventive scenery with trains running through it. I don't like long drawn out laborious shunting movements and I never worry whether points are operated manually or electrically. But that's just me.
I agree that many layouts are too flat but I guess it depends on how much space is available. Certainly a layout on differing levels with undulating scenery looks good.

I like gradients and different levels on layouts but its all an illusion and gradients generally have to be faked.

After all a typical 1:45 gradient would mean no more than 2.5 inches on a 10 foot layout

If there are 5000 of us on this Forum, there are likely to be 5000 opinions!  So these are some very personal observations.

Track plans will always involve compromise, but they can still be thought through and allow realistic operation.  Perhaps stretching that for demo Hornby tinplate, 3 rail, TT , Lego etc. 

I agree that railways are seldom flat and built on flat ground.  But layouts can look good whatever the style the builders have adopted.  And that may well reflect their own space, abilities, preferences, etc.  I like to see a mix of layouts, subject to the size and nature of an exhibition.

I fully agree there should be frequent and realistic movement whatever the concept behind the design.  Hence for Portpatrick Town (Fiddle Yd to Fiddle Yd)  I run a sequence derived from typical daily timetable in the area for the 50s.  It takes 40-60 minutes to run it through, depending on whether there are 2 or 3 of us operating and the experience of the operators.    If, as a punter,  I have the grandsons with me action  is best delivered by running trains, whether continuous or end to end .  For myself a layout shunted in a realistic and meaningful way is equally absorbing.

While I would not want to see a majority of incomplete layouts/stock, I personally am happy to see a few, esp in larger shows.  This can remind us all that layouts and stock take time to build .  And provide a different take in starting conversations.  Larger show in particular are well placed to show the public how work might progress as well as the "finished" product.  That to me is part of what exhibitions are about.  As a fairly regular attender at shows, it is then good to see layouts develop on future showings. 

I fully agree dodgy stock - usually locos - should be taken out of service and repaired at home.  I always bring spares for Portpatrick, and do sometimes have to use some of them.  Going home with a repair/maintenance list!  One thing I could not avoid was 2 years ago, being under the Rewley Rd roof at Quainton Road.  The heat of the sun above the glass was such that the turntable distorted and would not turn properly.  From lunch time on Day 1, all terminating locals ran with tank engines of which I had brought plenty!

Now for some of the other 4997 views?

I was at the Leamington and Warwick Model Rail Society (or something like that) exhibition yesterday.  I don't think I spotted any bad layouts and the show organisers did a great job of collecting a variety of layouts to suit all tastes.  Apart from a couple of Thomas the Tank Engine layouts each layout had the feel of a real place, even if it was a fictitious location.  Only two were works in progress but both were finished enough that it didn't detract from the overall experience; one was an N gauge layout that the club has shown evolving for several years.  It is nice to be reminded that exhibition layouts don't just appear in their completed state but take time to come together.

As far as operation goes, I find I get bored by layouts where it is just trains running through the scenery - no matter how good they are.  I like to see a mix of operation including shunting.  My perception is that you seldom see engine changes or through coaches being added/removed on exhibition layouts, which seems like a shame.  I also like to see gentle starts and stops, nothing shatters the illusion quite like seeing a big loco and long train stop on a sixpence or take off like a startled hare.

Sometimes a little 'wow' factor helps too (as long as it is prototypical), like the working wagon lifts on a P4 model of Birmingham Moor St or self-propelled wagons representing capstan shunting on a layout set in Leicestershire.  It is nice to see things that I wouldn't have thought of doing.

I agree about replacing locos that won't run properly.  I've only exhibited once but I tested and serviced my stock before and anything that ran poorly on the day was immediately substituted.  A rule that applied equally to stock that wouldn't stay coupled. 

I was at Telford recently and was very surprised to see the detail on the n gauge layouts was better than some 00 gauge. This demonstrated to me the detail to which us miniature modellers go to and which other scales do not. For a veiwer I like to see completed layouts and weathered stock.

There was a part complete layout at Stafford recently and it was clearly unfinished as opposed to not finished off and it was good to see the undressed base board and how the order of the build has progressed.

my layout is too flat. it's not an exhibition layout though. like a lot of people i started with a flat board as didn't know there was another way.

I think it's fair enough to exhibit a range of layouts that shows a range of modelling skill in creating them. there is no point being too elitist. beginners should get a chance to show their layouts at exhibitions too!

I think organisers just have to get a balance. a few beginners layouts, a few intermediate, but probably most should be of a higher standard because after all people have paid to get in so want to see at least some outstanding layouts.

Tim

FWIW, my few cents (no particular order BTW):

Despite what others may believe, when at exhibitions, we are 'entertainers' and as such no different to any of those appearing on Blackpool Pier or at the Royal albert Hall. Our job is to 'entertain' and give the paying public a 'show'; they've paid good money for the privilege!!

As a result, exhibitors we are there to present our 'best' to the public. Anything less is not acceptable. 

When presenting a layout to the public (since they are, as already noted,  paying for the 'privilege' of being entertained by me), 'completeness' is essential.  A 'work in progress' sign 'will' be tolerated, but only at one exhibition.  If it returns in the same state at the next one in the same locality, then forget about even going.

Humour is a great distractant!!!

A 'story line' is essential.

Exhibitions are not places for operators to have stand-up rows about 'operating procedures' and 'methods'. (Don't ask; it was very embarrassing, and no, I wasn't personally involved). 

Dinosaurs are essential (Hunting them keeps the kids occupied and gives the parents time to look at the layout which is before them).

Shunting / switching is an absolute waste of time.  The public don't care - they want to see trains (any trains) moving.

Timetable and 'prototype' operation , means zilch to the viewing public. Again, they don't care and only want to see trains running.

Except to the rivet counters, 'accurate' train colours / consists mean little to the general viewer. A 'blue train is a blue train, a red one is a red one. They won't get involved in discussions about Mk 1 carriages or Sulzer diesels.  They SIMPLY DON'T CARE!!

Operator interaction with the public is absolutely essential; it's the only chance we get to present the case for our hobby.

Pretest EVERYTHING  repeatedly before the exhibition day.  if it doesn't work, don't take it with you.

ALWAYS  have at least one backup locomotive and controller / transformer WITH you - not back at the motel/ hotel.

Operator 'enthusiasm' goes a long way to promoting the hobby.  At times it is noticeably absent.  Missed opportunities etc...

ALWAYS  assume that, at the exhibition, 'something' will fail and be very grateful when its doesn't!!

'Gimmicks' don't work, and 'risque' is very, very, risky!!  Best to play it safe.

Photos of things on the layout when placed on an adjacent noticeboard, can be a great conversation starter as not everyone's eyesight is good with small items and as a result these photos HELP PEOPLE SEE WHAT YOU HAVE MODELLED! (Not shouting, only for emphasis)

Sometimes the trains are actually irrelevant and are merely part of the scenery, NOT the focus....

As I said, FWIW. Thanks for posing the questions.

I think Komata has pretty much hit the nail on the proverbial head.
Interaction is essential. When I've been exhibiting people seem relieved when you actually engage them in conversation. My usual starter is "Do you have a layout at all?" It is surprising how that generally opens up a conversation.
I also truly believe that people will stop at the layouts they want to see and only glance at others. Much as at an exhibition of paintings, some people will stand and admire one painting for ages then walk past the next because it's not their "cup of tea". The same applies at model railway shows.
However, I disagree about the dinosaurs ! I have two oversized tortoises - kids love looking for them.
At a Christmas show a couple of years back I sent a train around to the front of the layout with a chocolate in an open wagon every time a small child was present. They loved it (as did some of the grown ups).