I appreciate that in asking what people consider to be an ideal number of coaches in a rake or consist that I might as well ask "how long is a piece of string?"
Much will depend on the size of the layout,the amount of available tock and of course the particular train or service being modelled i.e. the Henschell Wegman train had 5 coaches only and the Rheingold Express is often referred to hauling 4 coaches only but this doesnt include the obligatory baggage or fourgon behind the train engine and at times a second baggage car/fourgon at the end of the train.
Now I purchased an 8 set of the Kato Orient express(the proper one not the "celebration" replica one).
Now at the moment I only have the M2 Kato train pack approx. 4' long but I have found that a 5 coach se of the Orient Express looks much better than a 6,7 or full set.
Obviously in N gauge there is far more scope to run longer trains but do they look any better unless of course ther is a prototypical reason to run a long train?
What do others think?

I think that the length that looks right depends on the size of the layout.  I am fortunate enough to have a huge layout with a 14-foot straight. A full 8-carriage rake looks awesome (HST or Western with 8 MkIs). It's a great question, because a little branchline would be good for a couple of carriages or a 3-car DMU. How does a small layout look with a full length HST?

Might I suggest that this could be viewed from another perspective: the length of the  'standard' wagon used by the specific railway being modelled.  Railway Company Working Timetables usually specify that Sidings, Crossing Loops (Passing Sidings) etc. are to hold a certain number of wagons of a 'standard' length.  The length of a 'rake' (whether of passenger or goods stock) that a Company runs will thus be equivalent to a certain number of 'standard' wagons, and be able to fit within these 'spaces'.

While on our own layouts while it would be nice to run absolute' prototype formations, available space is always a factor in what we do.  FWIW, observation over many years indicates that it is in fact the Crossing Loops (which are smaller / shorter) than the 'Main Line' are the sections of our layouts which limit  rake sizes The bigger the 'crossing' space, the larger the rake that can be run, while the smaller the space, the smaller the rake (Logical really, I suppose).  However, if we 'rate'  our available space in respect of 'standard' wagons, we can at least have some idea about what size rake can actually be fitted into what is before us.

Freelance modellers  such as myself who 'do their own thing' in respect of our scale have been used to such 'limitations' for years (it comes with the territory), and have learnt to use it to their advantage; we know in advance what size 'standard wagon' trains (irrespective of function) will fit into a given space.  Perhaps this is something which  those who are into 'Prototype' could consider?

Submitted for what it may be worth, and as a possible solution to the 'problem' which Rheingold has brought to our  attention.

Hope it helps.

Just don't ask how the heck I'm going to get an 11 coach Pendolino on the layout as it's front end will be going into a tunnel while it's ar rear end hasn't exited the previous one

I decided pretty early on that 3-or-4 coach rakes would be the maximum I could run in the space available and still leave room for interesting operations, and to me it looks fine. It also helps that the "backstory" for my layout, though a work of pure Rule 1 fantasy, places it in a setting where shorter rakes or unit lengths would be plausible. Take Shinkansens for example - the general image is of very long trains (17 cars max), but until a few years ago they were running 4-car formations on "local" services on the far west of Japan.

What do look slightly silly are units with power cars at both ends with only a couple of coaches inbetween - the HST and DB ICE1 come to mind.

My roundy roundy layout was specifically constructed at a size where I could run decent length trains behind certain locos, such that a 9F/8F steamer has at least 20 hoppers hanging off it, and pacifics/mixed duties locos have at least 7 coaches. Although the prototypes did haul much less, to my mind they look faintly ridiculous doing so.
Likewise, my smaller end to end layout is designed to run only loco + 2 coaches/2-3 car DMU's and short pick up freights.
The objective, at the end of the day, is not to have an obvious tail chasing scenario

My Brighton Belle with the 5 total units is about the maximum  that 'Ruleoneshire' can cope with. Even my 4 unit EMU seems to take up more than I had reckoned was a comfy length

The length of the platform: loco+5 coaches if the loco is to run-round, loco+6 coaches if the stock will be removed by the station pilot to release the train engine. The SR and BR(S) made extensive use of fixed sets of (mostly) 3- to 4-coach length - though there were shorter (2) and longer (5 to 11) sets for specific purposes - so one of those with a couple of 'loose' coaches and/or vans suits me fine...

wanting a "roundy roundy" but being limited to a layout that has to live under the bed means I've had to limit myself on train length. 

I want to run prototypical trains, but didn't want to fill the layout so quite early in development settled on a general idea that no train should be longer than 1/4 of the length of the shortest oval in order to keep from looking "too much like a "train set"

For me This equates to about 1.1 meters, which handily works out to be about 7 mk1 or mk2's or 6 and a bit mk'3 when loosely coupled as they come from Farish.

Wanting to run an HST - I latched onto the fact that Virgin did run them in 5+2 format on cross country duties for at least a short while and so decreed that in whatever universe my layout resides - any HST could logically be run in such a format.

Thus, the 5+2 HST or Loco + 6 carriage train became my maximum consist length, with the 2 full platforms and a passing loop made to accommodate a it.

Of course, having pledged for an 11 car Pendolino , i'm also wondering...

Quote from: newportnobby on January 17, 2015, 02:11:07 PM
Just don't ask how the heck I'm going to get an 11 coach Pendolino on the layout as it's front end will be going into a tunnel while it's ar rear end hasn't exited the previous one

I'm thinking i may well construct a 14 foot long, 6 inch wide shelf layout at about head height down the length of the room to display it on, and perhaps run it back and forth.
Of course, on the layout it'll have to run in a similar cut down form to that of the HST's - thats if I ever get the layout to the stage where i can run trains anyway 

Hi All

The scenic part of my layout is 9 feet but the curves are off scene and I run the return loops the full length of the layout.  This means when I run long rakes of 9 to 10 coaches they look fine as there is a reasonable time before the train is back on scene.

The point of n gauge is to try and get full length trians in the landscape so when it works it can look very good.  Might make our 00 friends envious!

I've always tended to go by thirds ~

I try and keep the maximum train length to a third of the length of the scenic railway, which includes doing the maths to include the length of curves rather than the overall length of a layout. For Bournville, which is 14 feet long, the total length of track at the layout front is 8 feet straight (well, its on a 25ft radius curve) plus a 90 degree curve at 3ft radius (4ft 8.5 inch), plus a 90 degree curve transitioning from 3ft to 2ft radius (3ft 11 inch). This equates to a total rail length of 16 feet 7.5 inches, a third of which is near enough 5 feet 6 inches. This gives roughly 12 coaches or 38 wagons* as a ballpark for maximum train length.

On a smaller layout such as a 4'x2' with 2nd radius curves I still adhere to this, although if you can see the entire track plan I count the front two thirds of the layout as 'scenic'. A complete lap is 9' 5 3/16", two thirds of this is roughly 6' 3 1/2" 'scenic'...a third of this is 2' 1", which works out at just over 4 coaches or 14 wagons*.

*typical steam era 4 wheel wagon, a 12t van or 8 plank open for example.

I apply the same sort of principle to stations too, where the stopping train occupies up to 2 thirds of the platform. I based this on observations made when I used to get the train to school, where a typical rush hour service of 6 cars was still swamped by the station; even a service formed from a pair of 4 car DMUs left room at the platform ends. My current home layout has platforms 3' 6" long, so stopping trains are no more than 2' 4" in length. This gives me up to a 5 car DMU, though generally I run 3 car units with 'rush hour' services formed by a pair of 2 car units...a 6 car unit still fits with room to spare though

Quote from: Zunnan on January 17, 2015, 09:37:08 PM
I've always tended to go by thirds ~

I try and keep the maximum train length to a third of the length of the scenic railway, which includes doing the maths to include the length of curves rather than the overall length of a layout. For Bournville, which is 14 feet long, the total length of track at the layout front is 8 feet straight (well, its on a 25ft radius curve) plus a 90 degree curve at 3ft radius (4ft 8.5 inch), plus a 90 degree curve transitioning from 3ft to 2ft radius (3ft 11 inch). This equates to a total rail length of 16 feet 7.5 inches, a third of which is near enough 5 feet 6 inches. This gives roughly 12 coaches or 38 wagons* as a ballpark for maximum train length.

On a smaller layout such as a 4'x2' with 2nd radius curves I still adhere to this, although if you can see the entire track plan I count the front two thirds of the layout as 'scenic'. A complete lap is 9' 5 3/16", two thirds of this is roughly 6' 3 1/2" 'scenic'...a third of this is 2' 1", which works out at just over 4 coaches or 14 wagons*.

*typical steam era 4 wheel wagon, a 12t van or 8 plank open for example.

I apply the same sort of principle to stations too, where the stopping train occupies up to 2 thirds of the platform. I based this on observations made when I used to get the train to school, where a typical rush hour service of 6 cars was still swamped by the station; even a service formed from a pair of 4 car DMUs left room at the platform ends. My current home layout has platforms 3' 6" long, so stopping trains are no more than 2' 4" in length. This gives me up to a 5 car DMU, though generally I run 3 car units with 'rush hour' services formed by a pair of 2 car units...a 6 car unit still fits with room to spare though

Interesting read. I will have a go working out my layout that way,though my platforms are no more than 2ft long. Thank you for the post

Bit of rake length envy going on ?.....I am pretty lucky as I have a boards of 16 x 10'6 to be precise in the garage.... My station platforms are nearly 8 feet with straight running lengths up to about 12 feet...I wanted to model a br blue era diesel south Wales through station with steel and coal trains etc...so currently have 2 passenger rakes up to 10 coaches and a coal rake of now 30 HAA plus steels and pca and a 9 wagon freightliner rakes... They keep growing !..the limitation for me is the storage sidings length for the freights

I do not have a station but a 3 metre straight which is partly concealed along its length by tall grain silos, office buildings etc. My storage tracks are 2.3 metres so I can get away with a 2+14 Eurostar, or a double headed freight with 21 continental bogie grain hoppers. This works fine when running in French mode. In 2016 the longest passenger train in UK mode will be an 11 car Pendolino. Yippee.

Because the trains cannot be viewed in their entirety on the diagonal double track mainline straight  I seem to be able to get away with breaking the "thirds" rules.

Quote from: Mustermark on January 17, 2015, 03:02:54 AM
I think that the length that looks right depends on the size of the layout.  I am fortunate enough to have a huge layout with a 14-foot straight. A full 8-carriage rake looks awesome (HST or Western with 8 MkIs). It's a great question, because a little branchline would be good for a couple of carriages or a 3-car DMU. How does a small layout look with a full length HST?

I tried a full 2 + 9 GNER HST on my Fisherlea layout and it looked rather absurd because it was far too long for the passing loops (should have taken photos, but didn't)

Quote from: railsquid on January 17, 2015, 02:38:21 PM

What do look slightly silly are units with power cars at both ends with only a couple of coaches inbetween - the HST and DB ICE1 come to mind.

There were instances of 2 + 2, 2 + 3 and even 2 + 1 HSTs in passenger service - however they were rare and were adhoc substitutions for unavailable DMUs.
I like HSTs, but have no room for a full formation, however I felt there was a need for collocating prototype information, so I created a topic devoted to that on this forum
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19944.msg203803#msg203803

Train lengths on my current layout (Fisherlea) operated in prototypical mode are no longer than a 3-car 159 DMU, a 2 + 2 HST or an equivalent freight train length as they are the longest formations that can be accommodated within passing loops.

However I can run a tender steam loco and up to 5 bogie carriages if I wanted to as a change without it looking too huge for the layout.