Quote from: longbridge on May 03, 2014, 10:00:11 PM
Not all great hobbies are as expensive as ours.

I think railway modellers are being ripped off, that is why I buy only second hand, 95% of what I buy is as good as new.

No you are right, some are much more expensive! Look at the price of guitars, or bikes or climbing equipment.

If we are being ripped off, why are Hornby and Bachmann making losses? Whilst Hornby's losses could be to do with the Olympics fiasco and loss of their manufacturer (Sanda Kan - now owned by Kader/Bachmann and the factory closed down), Bachmann have specifically said they made losses on some models last year.  They could be lying to us, but I don't think any of us have any proof of that....

Model trains have been cheap for 5-10 years (but they weren't always cheap) and hoping that they will stay cheap isn't going to help anyone.

Cheers, Mike

PS Your Black 5 example is probably down to the cost of importing it to Australia.  I doubt the UK equivalent price was as high.

Cheers, Mike

Quote from: red_death on May 03, 2014, 10:04:15 PM
Dapol's production runs seem to have more flexibility than Farish so Dapol can (and do) run lower quantities of both liveries and total production run of a particular model than Farish.

As I understand it, Dapol look at the number ordered by retailers and add on a small percentage for late orders and to swap for any returns.

Farish look at the orders from retailers and round up to the next 'break point' where unit cost drops for bulk order.

That will tend to mean Farish models are produced in larger quantities per identity and that they are more likely to be holding stocks for longer, but because Dapol are producing only what you are confident they can shift in a fairly short time, there is a greater likelihood of the same livery being produced with a different running number sooner...

Quote from: red_death on May 03, 2014, 10:04:15 PM
The Hymek mould is not being destroyed - it is a question of how much wear the mould has had and how much life it has left.  There are various grades of tooling normally connected to how hard the tool is, softer tooling is generally cheaper but lasts for a shorter number of shots.

Exactly; the tools are being 'destroyed' only by the act of using them! There comes a point where they are so worn that loss of detail/accuracy means the models produced would not be acceptable to the customers (except perhaps for some of those expressing a desire to return to the era of the Poole caracatures...)
By now, I reckon that the total output of Hymeks must be well past the 10,000 mark.  Contrast that with Heljan who are known to favour cheaper, softer tools; where tooling for one of their 00 models was apparently beyond use after only 2000 shots...

Quote from: red_death on May 03, 2014, 10:14:06 PM
Model trains have been cheap for 5-10 years (but they weren't always cheap)

Thank you Mike, at least one person has confirmed what I posted on page 4


Paul

There's no point in going on about volumes of models produced, ownership of factories , moulds, losses by
Bachmann or Hornby. In the end you can either buy the goods or whistle Dixie.

Quote from: red_death on May 03, 2014, 10:04:15 PM
There are some misunderstandings on here:

The numbers for a Dapol production are not a 1000. As I said it depends entirely on the model produced and has varied greatly by model and by livery.  Some runs have been as small as 150 - 250 per livery (with multiple liveries per model), others have been much higher though I can't remember the the top end of the production range. Dapol's production runs seem to have more flexibility than Farish so Dapol can (and do) run lower quantities of both liveries and total production run of a particular model than Farish.

Dapol and Farish do spread the cost over more than just the first production run (well certainly Farish do in most cases - I'm aware of one model that might not be the case).


(NGS Product Development Officer)

Hi Mike,

Dapol will do a special edition run of 150 locos, but as far as I am aware only if it can be tagged on to a production run. There are some locos at the moment that have a 500 production run per livery, but you also have to factor in their DCC fitted verison which will be part of that 500.

A different ball game altogether would be if manufacturers announce that they would only produce a specific version if a minimum number of confirmed pre-orders are received by a given date.

This happens quite often with U.S. production but may happen over here more often in future.

I wonder what effect the Farish price increase will have on sales of Dapol products ?

I had decided to buy the Farish Peppercorn A2 pacific rather than the Dapol A3 based on "box shifter" prices of £120 and £100 respectively.

I'm now asking myself whether it's worth paying £45 extra for the Farish model if the price increases by 20%.

Or maybe Dapol will follow Farish's lead and increase their prices ?

Best regards,


Joe

Quote from: joe cassidy on May 04, 2014, 07:05:11 PM


Or maybe Dapol will follow Farish's lead and increase their prices ?

Best regards,


Joe

Please don't give 'em ideas, Joe

Quote from: Agrippa on May 04, 2014, 12:32:42 AM
There's no point in going on about volumes of models produced, ownership of factories , moulds, losses by
Bachmann or Hornby. In the end you can either buy the goods or whistle Dixie.

Here it is

Hugh Whistling Dixie

Quote from: longbridge on May 04, 2014, 09:15:11 PM

Quote from: Agrippa on May 04, 2014, 12:32:42 AM
There's no point in going on about volumes of models produced, ownership of factories , moulds, losses by
Bachmann or Hornby. In the end you can either buy the goods or whistle Dixie.

Here it is

Hugh Whistling Dixie

Brilliant!  Best reply to a posting so far !

Quote from: gc4946 on May 04, 2014, 09:27:33 AM
A different ball game altogether would be if manufacturers announce that they would only produce a specific version if a minimum number of confirmed pre-orders are received by a given date.

This happens quite often with U.S. production but may happen over here more often in future.

Another variation would be minimum order numbers by a set date but production then linked to the specific number of pre-orders received (with maybe a few spares tagged on in case of defects), it's already happened in OO with Rail Exclusive for their 37s http://www.railexclusive.com/index.php?category=81

I have to disagree with what many members have posted, perhaps unpopularly.

I think, for what we get, the models we buy are not overpriced and I can't understand how we can suggest we're being ripped off. In real terms we pay less than we did 20 years ago for a better product. As someone else alluded to in an earlier post, I don't think that Bachman are applying a blanket 20% increase. And even if they did, I think the CL24 currently retails from the Liverpool Emporium for around £80ish pounds. I would pay £96 for it. No problem. I think it's worth that. Others may not.

But, consider this. Just because you can't justify/afford the cost of an item, it doesn't mean you're being ripped off.

Just been on farish website new prices coming through  looked at 373-235 polybulk weathered nearly fell of my chair  £43 retail either thats a mistake or thats not 20%
Nobby

We are all addicts so we are not going to stop buying locos 

Quote from: nobby on May 06, 2014, 11:03:05 AM
Just been on farish website new prices coming through  looked at 373-235 polybulk weathered nearly fell of my chair  £43 retail either thats a mistake or thats not 20%
Nobby

Do you know what the price was before you saw it at £42.95?
TBH, looking at the Farish website prices is enough to scare anyone, as you'll get 15% off those prices with all the major retailers