This post is about fracking in the UK.

I'm interested to know people's opinions on fracking since it has been suggested (by some Lord or other) that we have fracking here in the north east. Call me a cynic, but if someone is suggesting in the H of L that it should be in the NE, then it must be bad, mad and ugly.
I really no nothing about fracking so some facts might be useful.

Anyone?

Although I cannot be 100% sure, I doubt very much whether there are any fracking experts on NGF, so if you wish to find out more then may I suggest you use one of the many search engines available to you and search the web.

This is a high politicised subject and nothing that is said on NGF will make a blind bit of difference to the extraction of gas using the fracking method anywhere in the country.

May we stick to n gauge and chat about something we all enjoy 

Thanks John.

I could of course google it. But I value the opinion of fellow n gaugers, which was why I asked here. I thought it was about future energy needs.

There was a BBC2 documentary about it recently based mainly on US experience. The balance of expert opinion was in favour of it provided that the environmental concerns (such as pollution of groundwater) were properly controlled, unlike in the US where there has been a free-for-all and some water sources have been poisoned. I am not sure that the North East has the right sort of rock for fracturing to extract gas, but Derbyshire certainly does. Lord Howell has now apologised for his stupid remarks in the Lords today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02zldds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

Of course there is a possible layout here for bringing in raw materials for drilling/fracturing and removing condensate.

As an aside there was a big move in the last decade to using maize to produce ethanol, and there are kits for the necessary plant involved. I was surprised to learn that Ford Motor Company in the US had a plant producing rayon from corn back in 1938!

So not everything we think of as new is really so.

Simple version - drill into ground down about a kilometer or so... then drill horizontally to access required area. Now pump in at high pressure, water and various chemicals which causes rocks to fracture, releasing the gas within. The gas then flows to the top and is collected.

Known issues with this are water table contamination and possible seismic activity....

Benefits - lots of untapped resources worldwide, should lower price of Natural gas (what we use at the moment)

I'm not keen on idea personally, but it's still a relatively new industry so it may be a bit early to pass judgement yet...   

Quote from: scotsoft on July 30, 2013, 06:51:44 PM
Although I cannot be 100% sure, I doubt very much whether there are any fracking experts on NGF

Yeah but the people on NGF are very friendly though. 

Only joking but I couldn't resist.

Thanks for those responses. Most helpful.
I'll see if I can find the bbc 2 programme on iplayer.

Quote from: woodbury22uk on July 30, 2013, 07:23:55 PM

As an aside there was a big move in the last decade to using maize to produce ethanol, and there are kits for the necessary plant involved. I was surprised to learn that Ford Motor Company in the US had a plant producing rayon from corn back in 1938!

So not everything we think of as new is really so.

That's really interesting to me. Right next to the freight liner terminal at Wilton, Teesside, is exactly that, a biofuel plant. Now that really is a political hot potato round these parts. Why? Well it's hardly ever operated for various reasons, but when it does, it stinks! It's closed at the moment due to it not being economically viable.

Cheers
Kirky

A highly emotive subject, but all options should surely be considered.

Whilst Lord Howell's comments made have been made without detailed thought, his implication that fracking should centre on less densely populated areas is essentially sound. The local MP  perhaps ought to take a reality check before condemning his comments as 'offensive'. Offensive...really? Poor delicate little flowers!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23510479

Quote from: Agrafarfan on July 30, 2013, 08:08:41 PM

Quote from: scotsoft on July 30, 2013, 06:51:44 PM
Although I cannot be 100% sure, I doubt very much whether there are any fracking experts on NGF

Yeah but the people on NGF are very friendly though. 

Only joking but I couldn't resist.

It must be my Scottish accent       

I wonder if any of our American modellers (or even modellers in America) have included fracking on their layouts, as it has been happening there big style.

Quote from: Claude Dreyfus on July 30, 2013, 08:23:56 PM
The local MP  perhaps ought to take a reality check before condemning his comments as 'offensive'. Offensive...really? Poor delicate little flowers!

I note that you don't live anywhere near the areas suggested by this prat - maybe you would feel differently if they were to start fracking under your house ?

Frankly, he was out of order and showed the lack of consideration many of his ilk flaunt to the rest of the population.  No doubt he has a lot of land "down South", so why don't we frack under there as I doubt it will be a built-up area so plenty of space (one of his considerations) !  Oh, sorry - different rules for the rich and the South East, I forgot ...

Mike
(only partially tongue-in-cheek)

Quote from: Claude Dreyfus on July 30, 2013, 08:23:56 PM
The local MP  perhaps ought to take a reality check before condemning his comments as 'offensive'. Offensive...really? Poor delicate little flowers!

I think if Lord Howell dismissed Lancashire as a desolate area I might have something to say as well
Having been at the forefront of fracking in the UK in our area, I might welcome the earth moving for me

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-23504883

Okay, not fracking for gas, but a similar process...

Quote from: Kipper on July 30, 2013, 08:48:09 PM
I wonder if any of our American modellers (or even modellers in America) have included fracking on their layouts, as it has been happening there big style.

No, haven't modelled it.  Yes, fracking has been "happening [here in the US] big style."  As someone else in this thread mentioned, it has largely been a complete free-for-all with very little oversight or regulation, and also frankly very little study about long term consequences.  Soil subsidence, groundwater contamination, and induced seismic activity have been problems of varying degree depending on locale and geology.

I can't but help think I am being told a whopper by the oil and gas extraction companies that "this won't hurt a bit."  We shall see, but as they say, there is no free lunch.

Matt

Quote from: Claude Dreyfus on July 30, 2013, 10:00:13 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-23504883

Okay, not fracking for gas, but a similar process...

off topic probably,

but I wonder 1. how many of these protesters actualy live in or near Balcombe ?

and 2. is it me, or do they look mostly like the usual rent-a-mob that turn up at any by-pass / dual carriageway / etc ?

certainly any genuine concerns won't be helped by 'protestors' cutting lorry brake pipes etc as reported a couple of days ago.