Friends,
I have just completed a hair raising journey on the M40!

Is it legal to undertake?

My wife and I have been gibbering wrecks because of motorcyclists and those in fast cars who zip through on the inside! 

One moment they are behind and then "WHANG" they go past on the inside!

Your thoughts would be appreciated, Peter.

Very simple you may only undertake if, for example, traffic in lane 1 is moving faster than that in lane 2. This would normally apply only if traffic was queuing in both lanes.
It is worth pointing out here that Lane 1 should be used in normal circumstances. Lanes two and three should only be used for overtaking traffic which is travelling slower than you are. You must return to lane one as soon as is convenient.
It is not permissible to travel in lane two if lane one is empty.

it's simple, according to the regulations it's not allowed, only in queuing traffic

but.

it's also not allowed to stay to long on the fastest lanes, you should always drive in the slowest lanes and only use a faster lane for an overtake.

for me it was quit a shock when I moved to the UK to see how many people like their lane hughing and it's indeed a big frustration as somebody stays in his lane where the slowest lane is empty.

luckily as of next year our police force has got much more power for lane hughers. 3 points and a £ 100,-- on the spot fine.

so in this case Peter and sorry if it's offensive but if you don't like to be undertaken drive in the slow lane, overtake lorries and other slow moving traffic and go back as quick as you can.

Quote from: port perran on July 09, 2013, 08:44:35 PM
It is not permissible to travel in lane two if lane one is empty.

Not only that, it is downright dangerous....
It forces people to adjust their speed either to undertake or go across 3 lanes to overtake someone sitting in the middle lane, instead of being able to go with the flow of the traffic.
Lane one ain't just for lorries and coaches......

The M40 is a real race-track, helped by a general avoidance of big towns (Banbury and High Wycombe being the closest towns of any size), being the most direct link between London and Birmingham, and finally being quite straight and level.

The overtaking late is just a procession of BMWs, Audis and Mercs* thundering along at 85/90 mph. They don't stop.

As said the the previous post, my advice is that you stick to lane 1, unless overtaking. Is it illegal to undertake? Strictly speaking yes, with the exceptions explained by PP, but it is always best not to give them the opportunity.

* Other car makes driven at 100mph everywhere are available!

Quote from: Maurits71 on July 09, 2013, 08:59:32 PM
it's simple, according to the regulations it's not allowed, only in queuing traffic

but.

it's also not allowed to stay to long on the fastest lanes, you should always drive in the slowest lanes and only use a faster lane for an overtake.

for me it was quit a shock when I moved to the UK to see how many people like their lane hughing and it's indeed a big frustration as somebody stays in his lane where the slowest lane is empty.

luckily as of next year our police force has got much more power for lane hughers. 3 points and a £ 100,-- on the spot fine.

so in this case Peter and sorry if it's offensive but if you don't like to be undertaken drive in the slow lane, overtake lorries and other slow moving traffic and go back as quick as you can.

What I forgot to add was that we were in the process of speeding up to overtake other vehicles when they popped up on our inside!

Once it happened as we were indicating in to the slow lane!

I have also encountered this...people are very impatient. Sometimes it is just safer to find a truck and follow it!

Speed doesn't kill...impatience does.

     I'm afraid I just don't like driving on motorways, never have done but done it because of need.  However I did love driving on the autoroutes in France

Speed doesn't kill per say - it's coming to a sudden and unexpected stop by hitting a stationary or slower moving vehicle that often does. But speed is a contributory factor in the cause of accidents.

If I remember correctly there are some 'allowances' for 'undertaking'

- On one way streets.
- When passing a vehicle signalling to turn right.
- When instructed to do so by a police officer.
- Where there are rows of traffic and the outer lane is queuing and slower moving

- and there is probably conjecture over the current recent type of 'lane control' on some motorways where there are rows of congested traffic and continually changing lanes in not allowed/recommended

But any undertaking considered aggressive or reckless could be deemed dangerous or careless.

H.

Lane 1; the truckers' secret weapon.....

I will not get on my hobbyhorse -    I will NOT get on my Hobby Horse . . . 

Until we moved last year, we were regular and frequent users of the M40.  Now we use the M1 more, which is even worse - though traffic on the M40 tends to travel faster.

My understanding of the motorways is that there is NOT a 'fast' or 'slow' lane but a 'driving lane' (Lane 1 or the left-hand lane) and two overtaking lanes.  As stated by others, the idea is to return from an overtaking lane to the left hand lane (if it is clear and safe to do so) as quickly as possible.  When it gets awkward is when there is a gap between vehicles that is big enough to drop into but then you need to pull out again almost immediately to overtake the next vehicle in front.

If someone has room to undertake me as you describe, Peter, I'd have to think if I should have not been in that lane.  I was a little uncertain of your statement of accelerating to overtake when already in the overtaking lane.  Perhaps I was taught differently to you - it was a long time ago and some things have changed.

A final thought - it is not speed in itself that is dangerous.  It is the wrong speed at the wrong time in the wrong place.  At times, too slow can be just as dangerous as too fast.  The major cause of problems on the motorways in particular is the speed differential between vehicles. I sometimes wonder if the Americans aren't right - everyone should be travelling at the same speed on a motorway.

But we are all too selfish (as a species), I guess, to drive courteously for others.

John


But I'm sure everyone on here are safe and courteous drivers. 

Part of the explanation for middle lane hogging in my view is that drivers are afraid if they move into the left lane that they won't be able to get out again as they catch up something slow, because of the continuous flow of vehicles that have already pulled out or are already hogging the middle lane.  Sometimes it is necessary to be a little assertive, turn on the indicator, keep a good lookout in the mirrors and see if either a gap appears or someone moves out into the right lane to make room.  There is also a duty on those already in the middle lane to show a bit of courtesy in this respect! 

Lane hogging in turn leads to the hairy situation when lots of people go into the right hand lane to sustain their chosen speed, and suddenly that lane is the most busy and moving slower than the lanes to the left. 

I hate to make a generalisation here but most of the time undertaking only occurs when someone is keeping faithfully to the middle lane regardless of the inside lane being free, or when the outside lane becomes sluggish and the middle lane is moving faster.
Either way, undertaking is extremely dangerous. I have lost track of the times I have had to move from the inside lane over to the outside lane to overtake someone tootling along in the middle lane. When I then return from the outside to the inner lane they still do not take the hint, but remain in the middle lane.
To a certain extent I can understand why someone would undertake but it is asking for an accident to occur.
There are, however, certain people who really enjoy lane changing and the inherent dangers of undertaking and will just weave in and out as if to alleviate boredom. There's never a copper about when you need one

May be unrelated to the original OP, but sometimes there is no option other than to undertake for the reason already given - lane hogging.

Classic case yesterday in the M25 roadworks: 50mph limit, car in middle lane doing a steady 42mph Can't use outside lane as HGVs not allowed to, plus due to roadworks it's a 6'6" width limit. No amount of flashing lights or even a short toot on the horn would get them to move into the completely empty left lane. So, do we create a lengthening stream of lorries in the middle lane waiting to overtake, or do we move over and (illegally) pass on the left thereby keeping the traffic moving?


Paul

Lots of interesting stuff. I wonder how many drivers used to British habits would fare down here in South Africa. I suspect lots of you would end up rather scared very quickly !