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Author Topic: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?  (Read 11764 times)

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Offline E Pinniger

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Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« on: August 08, 2012, 04:52:10 PM »
As a newcomer to N gauge and currently not very knowledgeable about standard gauge locomotive classes (though I'm learning slowly) I'm more than a bit confused by the seemingly huge variety of 0-6-0 steam locos produced by Graham Farish, and would be interested to know more about exactly what they produced and when! This may be asking rather too much, but any clarification would be helpful!

This page - http://www.ngauge.org.uk/farish_hist.htm - has a list of the diesel types produced by GF, but I can't find anything online listing their steam range.

Looking at the various second-hand GF locos that have appeared on eBay over the last few months, there seem to be a bewildering number of different body shells and liveries out there - some of which don't look very authentic! -  as well as variations in body shell details (e.g. Jinty, SR 0-6-0 tank) which I'd guess are updates/revisions to the mouldings rather than different loco types.
I'd be interested to know how many different types of loco (as in bodyshell mouldings) there actually are, what liveries they were produced in, and when they were produced. (I've learnt to my cost that the oldest models (can motor and plastic gears) are best avoided completely)

Types I've seen include the GWR 57xx and 94xx panniers, LMS Jinty, early starter set pseudo-Jinty, SR tank loco (at least one type), small GER(?) tank loco, and J94 saddle tank (I think the latter is a recent addition to the range); not to mention the 08 diesel (which I think has been in their range for a while).

Offline Caz

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 05:10:39 PM »
Bachfar have recently announced that the 57xx is to be re-motored and if it is anything like the re-motored Class 08 Diesel then is should be a good runner.  I've just taken delivery of one of the new 08's and the running is superb, haven't measured it yet, but goes down to about 1 scale mph, real supercreep.  I've also got one of the very old 08's it is also a good runner but nowhere as good as the new one and the old one is quite noisy as well.

I'm hoping that the new 57xx which are the bread and butter on my layout(Dapol are also doing one) , uses the same motor as the 08, if that's the case then I'll probably discard all my old chassis and replace them with the new version.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 05:27:16 PM »
Generally there were the following:

94xx Pannier - in GWR Green and BR black. This model had been through all the evolutions of Farish chassis, from the very first plastic chassied models (which actually worked) to the next version of plastic chassis (terrible as you say) to the 3 pole brass geared open frame motor, then 5 pole open frame motor white nylon geared , then 5 pole black geared, then 5 pole balanced silver commutator black geared. Most recent are the Bachfar versions of this with low profile blackened wheels and motion. There were also 2 body mouldings, one larger than the other - it changed ~1980 type time when the 3 pole open frame motor locos started coming out.

GP tank - LMS crimson, LNER apple green, SR green, BR black. Used the same chassis as the 94xx, in all the same variations, except there were never any plastic chassied examples.

57xx pannier - GWR green, BR black, only came with 5 pole open frame silver commutator motor and black gear. This is prone to splitting but can be replaced.

Later style Jinty -  BR black, LMS black - as above - only came with 5 pole open frame silver commutator motor and black gear. This is prone to splitting but can be replaced.

08/J94 - (many liveries!) came in 3 pole brass, 5 pole white and 5 pole black geared examples.

Of all of the above the only to avoid are the plastic chassied examples. All the rest can generally be made to run very well, though obviously the older the more likely it'll need  good overhaul and fettle to get running to best.

HTH,
Alan

As a newcomer to N gauge and currently not very knowledgeable about standard gauge locomotive classes (though I'm learning slowly) I'm more than a bit confused by the seemingly huge variety of 0-6-0 steam locos produced by Graham Farish, and would be interested to know more about exactly what they produced and when! This may be asking rather too much, but any clarification would be helpful!

This page - http://www.ngauge.org.uk/farish_hist.htm - has a list of the diesel types produced by GF, but I can't find anything online listing their steam range.

Looking at the various second-hand GF locos that have appeared on eBay over the last few months, there seem to be a bewildering number of different body shells and liveries out there - some of which don't look very authentic! -  as well as variations in body shell details (e.g. Jinty, SR 0-6-0 tank) which I'd guess are updates/revisions to the mouldings rather than different loco types.
I'd be interested to know how many different types of loco (as in bodyshell mouldings) there actually are, what liveries they were produced in, and when they were produced. (I've learnt to my cost that the oldest models (can motor and plastic gears) are best avoided completely)

Types I've seen include the GWR 57xx and 94xx panniers, LMS Jinty, early starter set pseudo-Jinty, SR tank loco (at least one type), small GER(?) tank loco, and J94 saddle tank (I think the latter is a recent addition to the range); not to mention the 08 diesel (which I think has been in their range for a while).
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 06:45:42 PM »
Bachfar have recently announced that the 57xx is to be re-motored and if it is anything like the re-motored Class 08 Diesel then is should be a good runner.  I've just taken delivery of one of the new 08's and the running is superb, haven't measured it yet, but goes down to about 1 scale mph, real supercreep.  I've also got one of the very old 08's it is also a good runner but nowhere as good as the new one and the old one is quite noisy as well.

I'm hoping that the new 57xx which are the bread and butter on my layout(Dapol are also doing one) , uses the same motor as the 08, if that's the case then I'll probably discard all my old chassis and replace them with the new version.

The new 57xx chassis will use the same coreless motor as the WD and 5MT from all accounts rather than the can motor found in the new 08. If the running qualities of the WD are anything to go by it should run superbly.

Regards

Roy

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 06:54:24 PM »
Generally there were the following:

94xx Pannier - in GWR Green and BR black. This model had been through all the evolutions of Farish chassis, from the very first plastic chassied models (which actually worked) to the next version of plastic chassis (terrible as you say) to the 3 pole brass geared open frame motor, then 5 pole open frame motor white nylon geared , then 5 pole black geared, then 5 pole balanced silver commutator black geared. Most recent are the Bachfar versions of this with low profile blackened wheels and motion. There were also 2 body mouldings, one larger than the other - it changed ~1980 type time when the 3 pole open frame motor locos started coming out.

GP tank - LMS crimson, LNER apple green, SR green, BR black. Used the same chassis as the 94xx, in all the same variations, except there were never any plastic chassied examples.

57xx pannier - GWR green, BR black, only came with 5 pole open frame silver commutator motor and black gear. This is prone to splitting but can be replaced.

Later style Jinty -  BR black, LMS black - as above - only came with 5 pole open frame silver commutator motor and black gear. This is prone to splitting but can be replaced.

08/J94 - (many liveries!) came in 3 pole brass, 5 pole white and 5 pole black geared examples.

Of all of the above the only to avoid are the plastic chassied examples. All the rest can generally be made to run very well, though obviously the older the more likely it'll need  good overhaul and fettle to get running to best.

HTH,
Alan
 

Hi Alan

The original 94xx pannier from circa 1970 used a very different chassis to the later plug together one, it it really rather good by comparison, and actually has a metal keeper-plate rather than plastic. I am guessing that cost was the motivation for the change but who knows....

Don't also forget the GER Holden Tank had it's LMS and Southern General Purpose Tank cousins. Again two versions of the Holden chassis, the original with sprung couplers and gears integral with axles (reasonably ok), then the later plug together one with all the same problems as the Pannier.

Regards

Roy

Offline Caz

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2012, 07:00:16 PM »
The new 57xx chassis will use the same coreless motor as the WD and 5MT from all accounts rather than the can motor found in the new 08. If the running qualities of the WD are anything to go by it should run superbly.
Regards
Roy

Damn, I was really hoping it was going to use a similar motor to the 08 as I wanted to have a go at putting sound in one and with the can motor there might have been room but with the coreless I don't think so  :scowl:.  Shame, I was looking forward to that challenge.   :'(

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2012, 07:45:01 PM »
Don't also forget the GER Holden Tank had it's LMS and Southern General Purpose Tank cousins. Again two versions of the Holden chassis, the original with sprung couplers and gears integral with axles (reasonably ok), then the later plug together one with all the same problems as the Pannier.

Yes, I forgot that, mainly because I've never had one that did anything other than collapse, so I've never considered it as much of a serious proposition. I do have an oddity there though - one with all brass gears. I've never got round to actually reassembling it and seeing whether it's any better, but I presume it's relatively rare, or very well re-engineered by someone!

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline E Pinniger

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2012, 08:24:13 PM »
Thanks to all for the information! Sounds like the range is more or less like I guessed, but it's interesting to know that the 57xx was actually a much later addition (you'd have thought "Duck" would have been an obvious choice) and that the J94 has been around longer than I thought.

I've seen the Holden J67 tank (the small GER loco I mentioned - now I know what it is!) in BR black livery as well as GER, LMS and SR. I assume the latter two are bogus liveries, not sure why Farish didn't pick LNER livery as the latter took over the GER!

Is the GP tank the same body used for the "Shredded Wheat" unpowered loco?


Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 08:38:45 PM »
Hello E,

Don't know whether this is any help as it has never been kept up to date

http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/farish_products_by_item_no.pdf

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 08:40:16 PM »
Thanks to all for the information! Sounds like the range is more or less like I guessed, but it's interesting to know that the 57xx was actually a much later addition (you'd have thought "Duck" would have been an obvious choice) and that the J94 has been around longer than I thought.

Oops I implied the wrong thing with the J94 - it was only available in 5 pole black geared versions, so is later. It's the 08s that have all flavours of chassis. The J94 was a much later model.

Is the GP tank the same body used for the "Shredded Wheat" unpowered loco?

Similar, but not the same - the GP tank is a metal cast body, the Shredded Wheat loco is a plastic bodied loco.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 08:41:53 PM »
I've seen the Holden J67 tank (the small GER loco I mentioned - now I know what it is!) in BR black livery as well as GER, LMS and SR. I assume the latter two are bogus liveries, not sure why Farish didn't pick LNER livery as the latter took over the GER!

Is the GP tank the same body used for the "Shredded Wheat" unpowered loco?

The Holden Tank was made in LNER green livery as well as BR and GER, but possibly only with the second incarnation of the plug together chassis, I'm not totally sure. I did have one as a spotty teenager, that definitely had the second chassis type.

The Shredded Wheat loco body is similar in looks to the later GP Tank but not identical. Also the GP Tank was diecast metal, the Shredded Wheat loco is plastic.

Regards

Roy

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 08:45:52 PM »

Yes, I forgot that, mainly because I've never had one that did anything other than collapse, so I've never considered it as much of a serious proposition. I do have an oddity there though - one with all brass gears. I've never got round to actually reassembling it and seeing whether it's any better, but I presume it's relatively rare, or very well re-engineered by someone!

Cheers,
Alan

Hi Alan

Oddly I had one of those metal geared Holden chassis too. It was fitted to an LMS General Purpose Tank body. Don't know what became of it - did I sell it on ebay and were you the buyer :D

Regards

Roy

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 09:01:10 PM »
Don't know what became of it - did I sell it on ebay and were you the buyer :D

Doubt it - I got it as a freebee from someone, though the reason why escapes me now!

I've just had it out and it looks like it could actually be reasonably durable - the gears that are brass are the ones that usually wear or split on these...

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2012, 09:06:28 PM »

Yes, I forgot that, mainly because I've never had one that did anything other than collapse, so I've never considered it as much of a serious proposition. I do have an oddity there though - one with all brass gears. I've never got round to actually reassembling it and seeing whether it's any better, but I presume it's relatively rare, or very well re-engineered by someone!

Cheers,
Alan

Hi Alan

Oddly I had one of those metal geared Holden chassis too. It was fitted to an LMS General Purpose Tank body. Don't know what became of it - did I sell it on ebay and were you the buyer :D

Regards

Roy

In all seriousness, mine was fully assembled when I bought it. I had always assumed it was a rather nice looking private re-engineering job - maybe not then? I had to clean it out, it had classic brass-on brass gear wear and metal filings everywhere in the chassis when I got it. It ran somewhat roughly and although it all looked neat enough in truth the conversion was not very effective from the running perspective.

Roy


Offline BernardTPM

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Re: Graham Farish 0-6-0 steam locos - how many types are there?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 09:17:37 PM »

Is the GP tank the same body used for the "Shredded Wheat" unpowered loco?
Similar, but not the same - the GP tank is a metal cast body, the Shredded Wheat loco is a plastic bodied loco.
The plastic version has a much smaller boiler (the 2nd Generation GP tank had a boiler that would have put the Royal Scot to shame!) and can be cut down to produce a reasonable looking Jinty body; Andy Calvert did one like this. Of course, Farish then brought out a 'proper' Jinty! The ex-Shredded Wheat body is now sold in starter sets, slightly modified to fit the last version of the 94XX chassis.

 

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