Newbie N Gauge questions - with apologies/please be kind!

[jpendle]

I don't use a Z21, but you don't need to program each function, they're all there, just push each function button. You may need to choose an appropriate icon for each though to remind you which is the toilet announcement and which is the drivers door or whatever!

Hi @njee20

By default a new loco doesn't have any function buttons enabled on the Z21 app.
You have to select the functions you want to use in the vehicles editor before they can be used in the Steering (Driving) section.

All this can be simplified by copying the settings from a similar loco when a new one is set up.

Regards,

John P

[njee20]

How interesting! On the ECoS everything is there by default (well up to F20 or so, above that you enable them on a loco-by-loco basis), but with generic symbols you can go and update. That does sound a bit laborious.

[bwj]

Been away for a while but now back in the garage!

Got the Pendolino working as a train set with functions coded. Still getting a lot of derailments though (when running the full 9 car set - running only 6 cars is ok) so will do a thorough track inspection and check all the bogies.

I hadn't realised that there was an updated Z21 app (paid for) as shown in jpendle's screenshots so downloading that and his advice made things a lot easier. The Z21 manual is pretty useless!

I also found this step by step on another forum very useful:

"First, once you have one loco on the track, go to cv programming and touch the loco (program) button top right. 

Then, try to read the loco properties. That may or may not work depending upon your decoders. I mainly use Zimo and they always read. Assuming that this doesn't work, click on the manual button at the top of the screen. 

Now this is the point where you may be going wrong. Once you click on manual it defaults back to a POM screen. You now have to select program track in the left hand menu.  Once you are in the correct screen the top variable which it will ask you to enter is a cv value (NOT an address value). So, put in cv#1 and then click on the 'read' button. This should return the value set on your loco for cv#1 which is your address. 

If you want to change the address then manually change the value and click on 'write'.  It's the same for any other cv values you want to read or change for that loco. Enter the cv number, read it, write the new value."

[bwj]

Ongoing teething issues

Dapol Class 58 - this was running ok until (may be a coincidence) I cleaned it on my Tidy Track. Now it runs super slow and without any traction. Lighting has also stopped working. I can't see the lighting clips (penultimate photo) on Dapol spares if anyone knows a part number or matching equivalent?

Dapol Voyager - appears to respond briefly to DCC programming abut doesn't run at all

Farish Class 150 - doesn't run at all and gives different CV numbers every time I try to read it. Lights are on though!

Any tips on testing with a multimeter to see if problems are with chips or motor etc?

Kato Eurostar runs very well but I'm missing a couple of clips that attach a bogie between two cars. Any clues on a part number or alternative fix (I have tried searching for a PDF manual/instruction sheet but this is an old model!)

Finally I have a Farish Class 350 which I'm trying to install DCC on - the shell is a b***** to get off! Any clues there?

[bwj]

This fella runs perfectly though!

Thomas sadly is "dead" but I found a repair and DCC fitting service even for locos of that size

Tomix DCC

[bwj]

Finally if it's of use to anyone I found, and succesfully followed this video guide for converting older Kato TGV's and similar. It uses the DCC boards from the newer Kato TGV Lyria which are available as a spare part, albeit rare. Kato part no's 14755-3G for dummy, 14746-3G for power car


Kato TGV DCC fitting

[ntpntpntp]

This one's not got a decoder, it's a DC blanking plate. For recognition purposes:  decoders have many more components on the board with an obvious processor chip etc.   You can see from the  circuit traces this blanking plate is simply linking some of the pins together.

[bwj]

Yep - sorry should have made clear on the Arriva Class 150

The photo does show it with a blanking chip for testing on DC

Testing it on DCC with a definitely working DCC chip - it doesn't move either way!!

[ntpntpntp]

If I'm reading the service sheet and your photo correctly, you have the blanking plate for the 150  inserted upside down.  pin 1 and 6 should swap sides?

https://bachmann-spares.co.uk/file/Class-150-DMU.pdf

[bwj]

On the Pendolinos, Function 1 turns the sounds on and off so it is configured as a Switch, if it were a momentary function such as a horn it would be configured as Push-Button.

Hope that helps.

Thanks jpendle but I'm really struggling at the stage illustrated

I'm following this index in the manual for the Pendolino



I can add direction lights that work with the two locos back to back as function 0

I can even add 15 and 12 the toilet announcement and the Virgin train welcome!

Nothing else works in testing. Presumably in the box "Function (0-31)" I input the same number as in the manual index? Do I need to also need to know the nature of the function push/switch/timed althought I have tried each option.

Also in FX functions on the Z21 Vehicle screen what is the difference between CI/CII/CIII?

[bwj]

I now have a draft layout, not secured yet as still testing electrics, but DCC power appears to be good everywhere.

Locos that are currently DCC Compatible are registered in the Z21 but I'm still struggling with all of the programming functions (post above).

Next teething problem is with the points. I'm using Kato Unitrack. I've bought some DCC Concepts ADS-4x units to control them together with the 3 to 2 wire solenoid connection converters.

I had the impression it would all be plug and play but nothing is intuitive with the Z21 controller!

On the Z21 I set up a mock layout with just one point for testing. It is track powered and you can see that the ADS4x is picking up the track power. For the life of me though I can't get the Z21's program accessory screen to pick up the CV for the point.

What am I missing?? Is the polarity of the track power input into the ADS4x important or doesn't matter. Have I got the adapter the wrong way around/do I need more wiring than just the two wires that should fire the Kato solenoid?





[The z21 is latest firmware v.1.43 and I am using the newer z21 software as per image. I've turned off the "offset CV addresses" option in Z21 app settings as addressed here: DCC Concepts advice and the ADS4x switch is on "set" rather than "run"]

[jpendle]

Hi,

Sorry I missed your PM.

For the sounds on the Pendolino your screen when you look at the loco should look something like this.



With a symbol and/or text, for each function plus the function number showing as well.

CI, CII, and CIII are just 3 pages with 12 function entries in each.

You can order the functions anyway you want.

I haven't turned on all the sound functions on my Pendos, but here are screenshots of my Farish sound fitted CL90's.







Hope that helps a bit.

I programmed my accessory decoders years ago, but if I recall correctly I did it like this.

First I didn't use POM.

I created a single point in the app with the address I wanted the decoder to use.

I used NCE accessory decoders and set them to program mode.

I then operated the point in the app by clicking on it, and the decoder was programmed.

Then I changed the address of the point in the App and followed the same process to program the next decoder, etc, etc.

Regards,

John P

[bwj]

Thanks again jpendle

I'll have another look at the programme function issues as per your advice.

For the specifics of my problem with getting the Z21 to recognise the ADS4x I got some very helpful advice from DCC Concepts:

"The ADS units are not readable by the Z21 system as there are no programmable CVs. Please follow the setup instructions which are supplied with the unit.

The process is:
1) Create an accessory on your Z21 system (using the layout planner).
2) Allocate the accessory an address of your choosing.
3) Put the ADS into SET mode.
4) Activate the chosen accessory on your Z21 left, then right.
5) Put the ADS into RUN mode."

The problem is with the Z21 manuals both for the old and new version of the app - neither explains stage adequately of having to create the point in the layout part of the app, save it and double click it's switching functions (while the decoder is in learning mode).

[jpendle]

The process is:
1) Create an accessory on your Z21 system (using the layout planner).
2) Allocate the accessory an address of your choosing.
3) Put the ADS into SET mode.
4) Activate the chosen accessory on your Z21 left, then right.
5) Put the ADS into RUN mode."

That's pretty much the same as what I had to do with the NCE accessory decoders.

Regards,

John P

[bwj]

So I finally have a draft layout as depicted. All using Kato Unitrack and DCC Concepts ADS4x's for the point control. DCC tested and power getting to everywhere on the layout after lots of trial and error.

There are two main line loops and an elevated loop, not for any great reason or realism but I had the track and it makes good use of the board space, and it's fun! I don't see any need or use for complicating things with a reversing loop.

On the left hand side there are two sidings for the 8 car Pendolino and a long freight train with perhaps space for another long siding later for my Eurostar, if I can revive it with DCC

On the right hand side there is multi train siding for EMU/DMU's etc. I plan to put a single two or three platform station on the extreme right hand side and use other areas for freight yards/maintenance depots etc before thinking about scenery

My questions from this point are:

- could I fake a low relief station building on the extreme right of the layout with a real station building on the other side of the tracks?

- best way to secure the track after drilling and burying the wiring under the board - just glue down / hammer and tacks using nearly the scored out drill holes in the Kato Unitrack/ballasting and gluing the ballast edges of the track later without any other support?

- for the longer future, any advice on signals for N gauge that preferably would be compatible with Kato Unitrack & DCC? Their branded signals are DC only. I don't need anything fancy like block control but maybe being able to link the signals to the ADS4x would be good.

Any comments and criticisms of the layout of course welcome!