Newbie N Gauge questions - with apologies/please be kind!

[jpendle]

IF you bought the Pendolino secondhand then the previous owner MIGHT have disabled DC running in its decoders.

Regards,

John P

[bwj]

So what does the socket look like on the back of your Z21? Presumably it should be a socket suitable for the green connectors. 

The green connectors are available

https://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-96321-spare-track-connector-for-z21-24444-p.asp

I think the slight confusion is that we already have your pictured green plastic connectors that go into the back of the Z21

I think John P's picture is of a green power feed connector to the track rather than the plug to the back of the Z21? It looks like John P's pictures is of a green felt device with a metal prong to the outisde of the track? That's what I may need to source although will also dabble with cutting the plug on a Kato power feed.

Bit odd that Roco doesn't appear to supply any dedicated pieces of track feed like the Kato one you pictured above.

[njee20]

Nope, John's picture is the plug for the back of the controller. The wires then need connecting to the track. You can solder them or splice them into the Kato connector.

I would definitely go DCC given the substantial investment you've made. Among your models the Voyagers and the 350 are a pain as they each need 3 decoders (if you run the voyagers as a pair you could get away with 4 in the two sets, having no lights in the 'inner' driving coaches.

The 150, 58 have 6-pin decoder sockets, plug and play. The TGVs will depend on age; they may have decoder sockets, but may not. The Eurostar will need a new PCB, the Digitrax DN163K0B (IIRC) is the easiest to fit. The Tomix models will need more heavy work to install.

[jpendle]

Bit odd that Roco doesn't appear to supply any dedicated pieces of track feed like the Kato one you pictured above.

It's not odd. The Z21 can be used with any scale and any brand of track.
Most people solder wires to their track rather than rely on pre-wired track or fishplates.

Regards,

John P

[jpendle]

We don't have/never had those small green track connectors for the Z21! Will try and find online or strip the wires on the Kato track feedeer and test.

As @njee pointed out, the connectors in my picture are the ones that plug into the back of the Z21, they are just lying on one side with a bit of shadow, @ntpntpntp 's link shows them better.

It sounds like you have some of those already and they can be used with the Kato feeder track by cutting off one of the Kato connectors and wiring to them instead.

Regards,

John P

[bwj]

I don't want to run the risk of Godwin's law coming to the gentle world of N Gauge modelling so I have created an image of my Z21 connections to try and avoid confusion!

If I understand it correctly the only options for powering N Gauge track from the Z21 is to run bare wire from the Z21 Main Track output with the green screw plug, and then solder to the track and/or cut the Kato track feeder cable and bare wire that into the Z21? The connector supplied with the Z21 is useless?

[njee20]

Correct. A lot of people use a bus wire to power the track - have a ring of cable (I use 1.5mm stripped from twin/earth) to which you attach thinner 'dropper' wires, which you solder to the track. I just connect my controller to the bus in the same way.

[ntpntpntp]

Just been checking some German forums about that black GeoLine cable with the H plug.    They say if the two pins on the other end don't fit the green connector then cut the pins off, bare the wire ends and connect those into the green connector.    Geoline Track came out before the Z21.  To me it seems odd they would include a cable that doesn't fit, but they say that 2 pin plug fits one of the other older DCC booster units.

Quite honestly, you can put the GeoLine cable to one side as you're not using HO Geoline track.  Cut the while plastic plug off the end of a Kato power feed cable and connect the bare ends into the green connector, and plug that into the Z21 track output.

Are you saying your green connector for the Z21 doesn't have screw terminals to secure bare wires?   If that's the case order one of those screw type connectors I linked to earlier.

[bwj]

Thanks again for all the help offered.

I now have measurable AC power running from the Z21 to the track.

I can get the DCC Pendolino moving but still need to learn the intricacies of Z21 programming. None of the other functions are recognised by the Z21 (I did use the programming track) although bizarrely there are carriage lights on but only in the rear four coaches!

The other frustration with the Pendolino is that the couplings (both the magnetic and the plastic clips) are incredibly weak, leading to constant decoupling.

Also while I am running the train on long straights with wide curves, track all checked for potential "tripping hazards" such as uneven rails, but there are constant derailments.

As this happens most often on the single point I've got on the testing loop, might putting a re-railng track after the point help? Tips for succesful running and maintaing coupling in the long term would be appreciated though 

[jpendle]

I can get the DCC Pendolino moving but still need to learn the intricacies of Z21 programming. None of the other functions are recognised by the Z21 (I did use the programming track) although bizarrely there are carriage lights on but only in the rear four coaches!

The other frustration with the Pendolino is that the couplings (both the magnetic and the plastic clips) are incredibly weak, leading to constant decoupling.

In the Z21 app you need to create entries for the various functions that the sound equipped Pendolinos support, these should be documented in the literature that comes with the model.

Here are some screen shots from the Z21 app on my iPhone showing what I mean.

In the app select Vehicles



You'll see something like this



but probably not so many vehicles.

Use the '+' sign to add a new vehicle, or if you already done that select your entry for the Pendolino.

The individual vehicle tab should look like this



You can enter it's address, give it a name, and add a picture.

Then select the Functions tab

This one shows my entries for my sound equipped Pendolino, on your app it will be blank and you'll need to add the various functions.



To add a function, just click on one of the blank function spaces and you should see something like this



On the Pendolinos, Function 1 turns the sounds on and off so it is configured as a Switch, if it were a momentary function such as a horn it would be configured as Push-Button.

Hope that helps.

For the carriage lights, just the 1st class carriages have light bars and they are on all the time, extra light bars were available to fit into the other carriages if needed.

For the couplings, they aren't magnetic, they are a push fit and can be quite tricky to connect, but once they are fully inserted they will not come apart, they are anything but 'weak' 

They have electrical contacts as part of the coupling.

Regards,

John P

[bwj]

Thanks jpendle for the comprehensive guide!

Again may be down to my newbie ignorance but I had thought that there was a way with the Pendolino on the programming track to get the Z21 to read the loco and it's functions? There are 22 diffrent functions on this model - they all have to be inputted by hand, one by one?

Once all that's done the train set has two driving cars how do I ensure that they work in tandem?

Re the couplings they are described in the manual as "kinetic couplings" which pass a current and are claimed to be unbreakable in testing. Sadly not my experience. Is there some magic to connecting them as the manual doesn't help! Will add a photo when back from a trip.

[crewearpley40]

Welcome

Looks simple and a nice plan should you go into scenery.

There are plenty of options should you need to consider and buy storage boxes with foam.

Chris

[njee20]

John's right re: the Pendolino couplings. They're not magnetic. As you say, they are kinematic (meaning they can move independently from the vehicles, rather than being fixed body/bogie mounted) and they're conducting. I find the easiest way to get them to connect is to lift both coaches slightly as you push together. If properly coupled they absolutely won't come uncoupled. At all.

Are you mixing up with the Voyager? The Dapol one does use magnetic couplings which aren't anything special.

On the lights - yes, the first class coaches (except the driving coach) have working table lamps. You can get light bars which will give 'proper' lighting to the central 7/9 coaches. You cannot fit interior lighting to the motor coaches due to the chassis block.

I don't use a Z21, but you don't need to program each function, they're all there, just push each function button. You may need to choose an appropriate icon for each though to remind you which is the toilet announcement and which is the drivers door or whatever!

[jpendle]

Again may be down to my newbie ignorance but I had thought that there was a way with the Pendolino on the programming track to get the Z21 to read the loco and it's functions? There are 22 diffrent functions on this model - they all have to be inputted by hand, one by one?

Once all that's done the train set has two driving cars how do I ensure that they work in tandem?

The Pendolino driving cards will work in tandem as long as they both have the same DCC address.

As far as reading functions from the loco, that is only possible with ESU decoders that use Railcom+, with a DCC system that also uses Railcom+, which basically means it only works with the ESU DCC system.

And yes you do need to enable each function, one by one, in the Z21 app.
BUT, and this is a big difference, this means that you can group all the most commonly used functions together, you can set any function to be momentary or to act as an on/off switch, you can give them any name you like, and you can pick an icon for each function that suits you.

As opposed to having a handset with Function buttons numbered from 0 to 9, needing to press 2 or more buttons to get to functions 10 and above, and with no indication on the handset as to what each function actually does for the loco you are driving.

Regards,

John P

[bwj]

I don't use a Z21, but you don't need to program each function, they're all there, just push each function button. You may need to choose an appropriate icon for each though to remind you which is the toilet announcement and which is the drivers door or whatever!

My first priority when back from my trip will be to program the toilet announcement!

Thanks for all the tips again.

I had a disappointing reply from the Traintrax (Kato dealers in UK) suggesting DCC fitting would be "very difficult" on our first gen Eurostar/TGV Sud-Est (the orange one)/older TGV Atlantique. I'd be fairly sure that none of them have DCC sockets ready but does anyone have another view?