Newbie N Gauge questions - with apologies/please be kind!

[bwj]

So thank you for the invite into the forum.

I had the idea a few years back to get my son into the hobby and as we had limited space went at the time with the N gauge option. He was too young at the time  to deal with adult models (aren't we all  ) and was happy with the temporary OO stuff from grandparents.

We now have some cleared garage space to set up a layout together - proper paternal bonding stuff. [Picture is just of the basic loop for testing stock].

Track at the moment is Kato Unitrack which was ideal for child hands and has been been cleaned up well and electric testing around the loop is mainly good. I may go proper modelling Peco track in the long term but initially will stick with the Kato

Rolling stock has been stored very poorly though and I have a few questions re setting up a new layout and repairs. I've split the questions below if that's ok, for ease of replies with quotes.

[bwj]

Question 1 - DCC or not?

We have only one piece of DCC rolling stock - a pretty spectacular Revolution Trains Pendolino 9 car Unit. Control is from a Roco Z21.

I'm wondering whether it it's worth the expense of updating other stock to DCC, if it's even possible for some or just downgrading the Pendolino to DC with blanking chip. I'm not sure if the Kato models could even be upgraded to DCC

We have the following DC stock:

(1) Kato TGV Sud-Est (the orange one)
(2) Kato TGV La Ligne de Coeur (silver six car set)
(3) Kato first generation Eurostar (nine car set)
(4) Thomas and Friends Thomas loco and Percy loco (these two seem far to small for DCC chips - I'm not particularly interested in real world versimiltude - they could potentially run on their own dedicated "novelty" line on DC only)
(5) Bachmann Arriva Class 52 EMU
(6) Farish A4 "Silver Fox"
(7) Dapol Class 58 Freight
( Bachmann Class 350/2 Desiro 4 Car EMU London Midland
(9) 2 sets of Dapol Virgin Voyager DMU's

So what I am looking for is a view on the practicality and cost of upgrading all of these to DCC or whether for some it is just not feasible at all. My hesitation is that we have so much DC stock and a lot of Kato electric signals/points/switches that are DC but I suppose could be sold.

[bwj]

Question 2 - DCC feeder track


If sticking with DCC we have a Roco Z21 controller - how do I feed power to the track? The Z21 comes with the pictured power feed for HO scale. When we initially bought it I did succesfully Heath Robinson a connection to the N gauge Kato track.

Trying that again I can't measure any power with my multimeter from Z21 to track.

Is there a bespoke feeder track to solve this or do I have to learn to wire and solder?

Also the two prong connection into green plastic clamps on the Z21 itself doesn't seem an easy fit or secure. What am I missing?!

[ntpntpntp]

Really the choice to go DCC is up to you, in terms of will there be enough benefit in doing it considering the cost to upgrade?  Maybe it's justifiable if you particularly love sounds, constant lights, and multiple locos on the same track.

My layout's 30 years old and I run it on DC 99% of the time.  Just occasionally I'll plug in a PowerCab just to exercise my small fleet of DCC fitted locos, but I have 300+ DC locos and units so for me it's not worth it plus I don't really want to hack old 1970s/80s models around even though I'm perfectly capable of fitting DCC. I'm not a fan of sound so that's not a draw to going DCC.

Just about anything can be DCC fitted, even if it means hard-wiring the decoder into models that don't have a socket. You do need to consider space for the decoder, which can entail milling out some of the chassis block in older non-dcc-ready models. Is it the current Bachmann or the old Tomix Thomas and Percy you have? The Tomix are a bit larger than the Bachmann equivalents.

Will you want to control the points via DCC? You don't have to.  You'll need accessory decoders suitable for the Kato 2-wire point motors.  It's another aspect where personally I'm not impressed with operating points via my PowerCab nor via a touch-screen app.  I like a good old traditional control panel with buttons

[ntpntpntp]

The simple option to feed Unitrack is to use the feed wires which plug in underneath the feeder track, cut off the Kato plug and join to the DCC output of the Z21 using a choc-block or whatever method suits. 

https://traintrax.co.uk/20041-62mm-feeder-track-p-281.htm



You can also buy pre-wired Unijoiners which can help with adding more feeds, although feeding via the fishplate is not the best option as you still have the loose fit of the Unijoiners to contend with.

I don't know the connection method used with the Z21, but clearly other folk manage to connect up to their layouts without problem.

[bwj]

Question 3 - replacement parts/repairs

Because of the poor storage, we are missing some entire bogies and couplings so looking for any advice on best source for Kato parts/repairs.

The Dapol Voyagers are also running very slow and one of the magnetic couplers has sheared away.

I fear I may have caused this myself - I tried to clean the Dapol Class 58 using TidyTrack device. Was running ok before but now only at snail speed with no traction. I may have burned out the motor. So finally, seeking some tips on Dapol repairs (or whether there might be something I can look at, at home).

Apologies for so many questions but all and any help will be much appreciated!

[bwj]

The simple option to feed Unitrack is to use the feed wires which plug in underneath the feeder track, cut off the Kato plug and join to the DCC output of the Z21 using a choc-block or whatever method suits. 

You can also buy pre-wired Unijoiners which can help with adding more feeds, although feeding via the fishplate is not the best option as you still have the loose fit of the Unijoiners to contend with.

Thanks for both replies

The Thomas and Percy are the Tomix models.

I'm minded to stick with DC as per your experience but that will mean downgrading the Pendolino and selling the Z21, which is a shame. I really can't make my mind up.

Thanks also re power connection to Z21 - I have a few Kato feeder tracks so we can cobble one to the Z21. Just didn't want to start cutting off their plugs without advice as I am a very new newbie!

[ntpntpntp]

Kato spares you could try dealers such as TrainTrax and also check on ebay. Kato product is mostly batch runs though, so spares for older models can be  more difficult to obtain.

Does the 58 have traction tyres? If your 58 has lost traction then it could be that using the TidyTrack cleaner has destroyed the tyres?  Simply cleaning it shouldn't burn anything out unless you press really hard and stall the model.

[bwj]

Thanks again.

No traction tyres on my Bachmann Class 58. I have definitely done something to the electrics as it had directional running lights which are now dead!

[jpendle]

Hi,

Unless you need the money, I wouldn't get rid of the Z21, it is one of the very best DCC systems out there.

I don't know where you got the Z21 from but they don't come with anything like the "H" shaped PCB. A brand new one comes with green, 2 pin, mating connectors for the track and programming bus connectors on the back of the unit. They are screw terminal connectors, so no soldering involved, just strip back the wires that come with the Kato feeder track, push then into the Z21 mating connectors and screw them tight. The mating connector just pushes into the Z21 connectors.

The Dapol Voyager is not a particularly good model, I have 2 and only one of them runs satisfactorily, but it is very noisy.

The Pendolino doesn't need to be 'downgraded' for DC, the DCC chips in it should work fine on DC (unless it has had a CV change) and still provide some sounds.

Regards,

John P

[bwj]

Thanks John P for another comprehensive and sympathetic to a newbie reply.

As said I'm conflicted but would like to stick with the Z21 DCC if I can get it working.

The pictured track ("H" shaped PCB) connector is exactly as supplied in original box but is for HO/OO gauge when I bought it about 6 years back and we don't have the "green, 2 pin, mating connectors", only the green connectors to the Z21 track output itself. Happy to strip wires on the Kato connectors though and try and report back!

As for the Pendolino on DC track, it has lights and sounds but does not move! [I have tested it with power car only.]

[ntpntpntp]

Finally identified that weird H track power connector:  it's for Roco GeoLine HO track apparently.

https://www.modellbahnunion.com/HO-gauge/GeoLine-Einspeisungselement-DCC.htm

[jpendle]

The Pendolinos quite often don't work with just the power car, hook up a couple of carriages and try it again.

The Z21 should have come with a couple of these in the box



If you don't have them they are really easy to find online and aren't expensive.

I can see in your first photo that you have a multimeter.

To check the Z21 just connect it directly to the DCC bus output of the Z21 and measure the AC voltage. Depending on the brand of multimeter you should see between 12V & 16V AC.

Regards,

John P

[bwj]

Thanks again John P.

We don't have/never had those small green track connectors for the Z21! Will try and find online or strip the wires on the Kato track feedeer and test.

As for the Pendolino I have tried different rakes with some/all carriages on the DC track with no movement but will keep testing too. I could run an isolated DCC loop on the outside of the layout just for the Pendolino, but that would reduce the interest!

[ntpntpntp]

So what does the socket look like on the back of your Z21? Presumably it should be a socket suitable for the green connectors. 

The green connectors are available

https://www.scograil.co.uk/roco-96321-spare-track-connector-for-z21-24444-p.asp