Coach / DMU Conversion Identification Help

[Dalteth]

Hi All,

Need some help identifying what was attempted to be created as part of a conversion I picked up in an ebay lot.

It clearly started as a mk1 blue and grey coach, with one end neatly removed and replaced with what looks a 3D printed DMU end.

What I'm not sure of though, is what DMU was aimed at, and therefore how accurate it is.

Depending on the answer, I may either attempt to complete the conversion or use a spare mk1 body to put it back to how it was.





Any help appreciated!

[Platy767]

Could it be a Class 302?
According to Wikipedia: "This class of multiple unit was constructed using the Mark 1 bodyshell and was slam-door."

Mark

[Bob G]

Top marks to @Platy767

The cab ends are representative of the Class 302 (3-car Fenchurch St - Shoeburyness) and 307 (4-car Liverpool St Southend) units. Both had pantographs sited above the guards accommodation.

However the bodies of both units should be multiple slam door and there should be a bit more of a roof projection over the cab front (like the Farish 4CEP).

The 307 units were built at Eastleigh/Ashford so there is a southern EPB ancestry to them. The later 302s were York/Doncaster built, but used the same cab style.

I think they should really have the sides stripped of paint and e.g. brass sides (or Electra vinyls) added.

HTH
Bob

[Dalteth]

Thanks both.

I think in that case, it's likely getting put back to a mk1. It's looks nothing like a 302 or 307 other than the replacement cab. Also, with having only one end, going to struggle to make a full DMU!

[Platy767]

  There is work to be done either way and an EMU (even a single or double car)  is FAR more interesting than another Mk1!

Just my 2c

Mark

[Neil of Teesside]

It's a Class 302 front end. The Class 307 had narrower windows. Both were 4-car sets. The 302s were originally DC powered so open up a whole extra dimension.

[AdrianC]

At the risk of being pedantic, it was the 307s that were originally 1500DC units, they were extensively rebuilt to 6.25/25KV AC in the early 60s when the GE electrification was changed. 302s, despite the earlier class number were always 6.25/25KV AC.

Agree with others, that's a 302 front end.

[Bob G]

At the risk of being pedantic, it was the 307s that were originally 1500DC units, they were extensively rebuilt to 6.25/25KV AC in the early 60s when the GE electrification was changed. 302s, despite the earlier class number were always 6.25/25KV AC.

Agree with others, that's a 302 front end.

No. That's not being pedantic, @AdrianC . That is just fact, and you know your ER EMUs better than I do.

It is @Neil of Teesside that is being pedantic, suggesting that the windows on the 307 are narrower, and that you would notice this at a scale viewing distance of 300 feet.
There is a whole thread on advising a modeller what to worry about here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=56651.new;topicseen#new

Given that @Dalteth acquired this conversion with a 302 front end stuck onto a Farish Mk 1 coach, and without the roof projecting over the front end like both the 302s and 307s did, I think that is far more obvious a compromise than the windows being a bit narrower on the 307.

Plus nobody has commented on the MU jumper leads yet, which are wrong for early 307s, but consistent with 302s and later 307s.

As they say on other forums, just sayin

Bob

[Neil of Teesside]

At the risk of being pedantic, it was the 307s that were originally 1500DC units, they were extensively rebuilt to 6.25/25KV AC in the early 60s when the GE electrification was changed. 302s, despite the earlier class number were always 6.25/25KV AC.

Agree with others, that's a 302 front end.

Thanks - always get them mixed up.

[Neil of Teesside]

It is @Neil of Teesside that is being pedantic, suggesting that the windows on the 307 are narrower, and that you would notice this at a scale viewing distance of 300 feet.
There is a whole thread on advising a modeller what to worry about here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=56651.new;topicseen#new

The windows of the 307 stop a good 6 inches short of the central flat panel, whilst the 302's windows go to the flat central panel. Visible at any distance. Pedantic maybe, but a fact that is readily spottable.

[Bob G]

It is @Neil of Teesside that is being pedantic, suggesting that the windows on the 307 are narrower, and that you would notice this at a scale viewing distance of 300 feet.
There is a whole thread on advising a modeller what to worry about here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=56651.new;topicseen#new

The windows of the 307 stop a good 6 inches short of the central flat panel, whilst the 302's windows go to the flat central panel. Visible at any distance. Pedantic maybe, but a fact that is readily spottable.

If you had been around modelling N gauge 50 years ago you would not have worried about such things.
We had window inserts that left 6 inch sills around every window frame then.
Undersized steam loco driving wheels.
Awful whitemetal kits.
But we had fun. probably because there were not forums with instant gratification, and we had to wait for the Railway Modeller to be published every month to find out what was likely to be released.